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@booboo said in US Politics:
But I have question about how he is going about the act of Presidenting with all the Executive Orders.
In simple layman's terms can someone explain how he can just decide a certain course of action, sign an Executive Order and suddenly it is so.
What are the checks and balances?
What's the point of Congress and Senate if this can happen?
If it's as simple as governing by Executive Order have previous POTII (plural of POTUS) done the same? If not, why not?
From what I understand the checks and balances remain, the courts and legislative houses can overturn the orders if they want. The point is that until that time the order has the weight of law.
And they've all done it, it's part of the fun of being President, a bit like Jean Luc Picard - "make it so" and people scuttle off to get it done.
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The EOs should deal with areas where the Executive has the responsibility. They shouldn't be stepping into the Legislatures territory.
They should basically be about priorities for Federal agencies and where resources should be concentrated etc- Congress writes laws, not the Executive
- Congress writes the budget, not the Executive.
- The Constitution gives the President the power to make decisions in certain areas like foreign policy, trade negotiations, treaty negotiations, immigration, borders, national security etc (although many of those decision must eventually be agreed with Congress)
- Executive Orders must be Constitutional
- Executive Orders can't break current laws
- Confusingly, Congress has willingly (stupidly) given up some of its power to the Executive in recent years (eg the pipeline should really be decided by Congress but they gave Obama that power and he never made a decision.. Trump approved when he came to power)
Checks and balances? Courts can overturn, the Legislature can pass laws usurping an EO (which the Pres could veto) or Impeachment (which could just result in a censure not necessarily removal from office)
There plenty of articles mentioning the number of EOs Presidents have passed - it's irrelevant. A Pres could pass 5000 valid EOs and another another could pass 5 illegal EO's.. who is abusing power?
Trumps imigration EO is probably fine but will get tested int he courts. I actually think his Obamacare one is closer to Executive overreach (for the same reasons Obamas EO about the same law was dodgy)
Oh and its important to note that questioning executive power is noble again. Until recently it was clearly racist.
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@Frank said in US Politics:
Trump has responded to the Berkeley violence -
“If U.C. Berkeley does not allow free speech and practices violence on innocent people with a different point of view – NO FEDERAL FUNDS?”I don't doubt that the violent aspects of the protest were from a minority of scum that turned up with masks (I.E. covering their faces as they intended to commit crime) to escalate what would have otherwise been a peaceful protest. I'm not willing to tar everyone on the left with that brush just as I would expect anyone on the left to refrain from tarring all of the right with the 'racist, homophobic' brush.
Personally I don't think protesting has any effect at all. Those students would be far better to listen to Milo and join the debate - holding up silly "say not to racism" signs and chanting will do little to sway anyone.
But what concerns me most about this event is the Universities official statements after the fact:
"While Yiannopoulos' views, tactics and rhetoric are profoundly contrary to our own, we are bound by the Constitution, the law, our values and the campus's Principles of Community to enable free expression across the full spectrum of opinion and perspective,"
That's an astounding thing for a University to say. I may be naive here but I would expect a University to be a place that fosters healthy debate from differing viewpoints, teaching people to use logic, reason and critical thinking to form their own viewpoints. When they say a right-wing viewpoint is "profoundly contrary to their own" then they are openly admitting that they teach the left-wing viewpoint, and if you differ from that then you go against what the University stands for. And that to me is not a University at all.
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@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
That's an astounding thing for a University to say. I may be naive here but I would expect a University to be a place that fosters healthy debate from differing viewpoints, teaching people to use logic, reason and critical thinking to form their own viewpoints. When they say a right-wing viewpoint is "profoundly contrary to their own" then they are openly admitting that they teach the left-wing viewpoint, and if you differ from that then you go against what the University stands for. And that to me is not a University at all.
It's Berkely. They've always been liberal.
In other news, Sean Spicer must be the most useless press secretary in the history of mankind.
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
That's an astounding thing for a University to say. I may be naive here but I would expect a University to be a place that fosters healthy debate from differing viewpoints, teaching people to use logic, reason and critical thinking to form their own viewpoints. When they say a right-wing viewpoint is "profoundly contrary to their own" then they are openly admitting that they teach the left-wing viewpoint, and if you differ from that then you go against what the University stands for. And that to me is not a University at all.
It's Berkely. They've always been liberal.
In other news, Sean Spicer must be the most useless press secretary in the history of mankind.
They are no longer liberal.... they are regressive.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
If the reports are true about the tone. The Trump was a fucking tool with Turnbull.
And the internet generally.
Wonder what his SoS Tillerson thinks about such diplomacy?
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@NTA said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
If the reports are true about the tone. The Trump was a fucking tool with Turnbull.
And the internet generally.
Wonder what his SoS Tillerson thinks about such diplomacy?
His conduct so far is not surprising and pretty alarming. Forget getting information from the relevant government departments before making decisions the Trump camp is going off the reservation
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
If the reports are true about the tone. The Trump was a fucking tool with Turnbull.
And the internet generally.
Wonder what his SoS Tillerson thinks about such diplomacy?
His conduct so far is not surprising and pretty alarming. Forget getting information from the relevant government departments before making decisions the Trump camp is going off the reservation
No they arent going off the reservation. Unless you mean fulfilling campaign promises and being a knob. Only one of those things is unusual for a politician.....
BTW your reference to going 'off reservation' is cultural appropriation, Expect a riot outside your house soon.
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Milo is equally annoying and hilarious.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
If the reports are true about the tone. The Trump was a fucking tool with Turnbull.
And the internet generally.
Wonder what his SoS Tillerson thinks about such diplomacy?
His conduct so far is not surprising and pretty alarming. Forget getting information from the relevant government departments before making decisions the Trump camp is going off the reservation
No they arent going off the reservation. Unless you mean fulfilling campaign promises and being a knob. Only one of those things is unusual for a politician.....
BTW your reference to going 'off reservation' is cultural appropriation, Expect a riot outside your house soon.
Trigger? ;). Clearly DonDon subscribes to the view that being an arse hole all the time works
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@canefan said in US Politics:
His conduct so far is not surprising and pretty alarming. Forget getting information from the relevant government departments before making decisions the Trump camp is going off the reservation
Its alarming because he is making huge fuck ups by not briefing.
EG he puts the imigration plan in place without running it through the usual processes & its immediately partially rolled in 4 federal courts, American allies lose their shit, the entire US tech industry - who were on side, are now up in arms.
He doesn't bother fully briefing on the Yemen attack - and relies on Bannon & Kusner to advise, & its a fucking disaster
He doesn't brief ahead of a call with his closest ally (Aussie) and hangs up on him in a hissy fit
He doesn't brief ahead of tweeting about Mexico & the meeting Kushner has spent weeks organising falls apart
These are all bad, but not terrible, because he's fucking up with allies (tho' the dead SEALs family maybe wont be stoked), its when he doesn't brief ahead of Iran, Russia, North Korea its gets bad. He'll he did it re China & Taiwan...
Its not off reservation, its gross incompetence.
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@gollum said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
His conduct so far is not surprising and pretty alarming. Forget getting information from the relevant government departments before making decisions the Trump camp is going off the reservation
Its alarming because he is making huge fuck ups by not briefing.
EG he puts the imigration plan in place without running it through the usual processes & its immediately partially rolled in 4 federal courts, American allies lose their shit, the entire US tech industry - who were on side, are now up in arms.
**He doesn't bother fully briefing on the Yemen attack - and relies on Bannon & Kusner to advise, & its a fucking disaster
**
He doesn't brief ahead of a call with his closest ally (Aussie) and hangs up on him in a hissy fitHe doesn't brief ahead of tweeting about Mexico & the meeting Kushner has spent weeks organising falls apart
These are all bad, but not terrible, because he's fucking up with allies (tho' the dead SEALs family maybe wont be stoked), its when he doesn't brief ahead of Iran, Russia, North Korea its gets bad. He'll he did it re China & Taiwan...
Its not off reservation, its gross incompetence.
Not sure that comment is fully correct. Reports were that SecDef Jim Mattis was in on the approval and there is no way he would have OK'd things without being briefed.
What has happened though is that the int was either incorrect, not up to date or was not available and a calculated risk was taken. Mattis may be a cut and dried, black and white, hard nut but he values good intelligence before risking lives.
This is totally not abnormal. Not everything can be known about everything all the time despite what is seen in the movies.
A brief would have almost certainly have been done. My guess is that the risk barrier was lowered a bit by Trumps team and it didn't work out well. -
Times, Guardian & FT all reporting this -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/02/trump-approved-yemen-raid-five-days-after-inauguration
Both the New York Times and Reuters carried quotes from unnamed military officials that seemed to shift blame for the mission to Trump and his inner team. It would be an extraordinary development for a president, who is commander-in-chief, to be briefed against in such detail.
US military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations.
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