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@antipodean so are you categorically saying the youth voted FOR the slick bloke in the suit and not AGAINST the woman who had a swastika tattooed on her head?
I'm just considering that its a two-horse race here.
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@NTA That's an interesting question. As we saw with the Brexit vote, older people, viewing the past through possibly rose coloured glasses at least have a different vision to compare to the current situation.
It's much harder to envisage an alternative when you know only one thing, particularly when that's coloured by a past association with anti-Semitism and racism.
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@antipodean I think perhaps Brexit gave a few people across the channel a lesson as well: abstention can be as effective as voting for who you DON'T want.
Though I note @mooshld calling the abstention rate a little higher than normal. That could be the disagreed who are sick of politics in its current form.
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I thought he had suggested some labour market reform - at the risk of having had a very short post & table from David Farrar as my French Election Guide over the last couple of weeks
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A couple of things to note
- it's not a continuation, that's just Let Pens sound bite. He is not a member of the socialist party and in fact formed his own due to not being very happy with them. The socialist really are not on board with a lot of his ideas and have said they will fight him, particularly on labour reform and retirement.
- Le Pen did not get support of 35%of France. Abstention and blank votes totaled around 35%of the French total population. A lot of people wanted neither.
- it wasn't the youth that won it for him. They wanted Melanchon and were a big part of the record high abstention rate. While the older demographic got behind him in a big way according to the early stats.
- Out of the 101 departments in France, think Provences only smaller, she won a majority in 2. So the assembly elections could be interesting. Already infighting has begun. The young niece has been on the TV arguing with party seniors. And her father sent out some rather nasty stuff calling the acting head a servant in his house and not to get any big ideas.
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I tend to agree with @mooshld
I think Macron is the Trump equivalent.
Not part of the poltical establishmsnt.
Not beholden to a party political dogma.
Beats a candidate from a dynastic party system.
Seems to me to fit the late 2010s revolt against "normal" politics.
Good on him.
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Trump equivilent in that he's not an experienced poltitian.
Literally a MILE from Trump on message, he's hugely pro EU, pro global trade, he's a huge supporter of green policies. loathes coal. He's broadly pro immigration, against the headscarf ban in Universities, he wants to make it easier to get high skill visas.
He's in almost every respect the anti-Trump.
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@gollum said in French Politics:
Trump equivilent in that he's not an experienced poltitian.
Literally a MILE from Trump on message, he's hugely pro EU, pro global trade, he's a huge supporter of green policies. loathes coal. He's broadly pro immigration, against the headscarf ban in Universities, he wants to make it easier to get high skill visas.
He's in almost every respect the anti-Trump.
Your first paragraph @gollum
I didn't say he was equivalent in policy. More suggesting he was attractive to voters for the same reasons Trump was:
- not a poltical animal
- ideas from left field
- against the hated political enemy
Yeah sure he and his opposition are to the other side of the political spectrum, but there is some really close analogies.
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Sure, but he's also 100% part of the core poltical class in France, went to same school they all went to (the ENA), worked for them, was in a mainstesam party, he was a senior member of Hollandes government.
The "He's just like Trump!" only flies in one (tiny) part - that he's never been elected before.
In literally every other area he's a core polititian who came up through the ranks & ran on the opposite platform to Trump.
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@gollum said in French Politics:
Sure, but he's also 100% part of the core poltical class in France, went to same school they all went to (the ENA), worked for them, was in a mainstesam party, he was a senior member of Hollandes government.
The "He's just like Trump!" only flies in one (tiny) part - that he's never been elected before.
In literally every other area he's a core polititian who came up through the ranks & ran on the opposite platform to Trump.
Jeez you have an amazing ability to pick an argument where there isn't one.
You're just like @Baron-Silas-Greenback ... only not.
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@booboo said in French Politics:
@gollum said in French Politics:
Sure, but he's also 100% part of the core poltical class in France, went to same school they all went to (the ENA), worked for them, was in a mainstesam party, he was a senior member of Hollandes government.
The "He's just like Trump!" only flies in one (tiny) part - that he's never been elected before.
In literally every other area he's a core polititian who came up through the ranks & ran on the opposite platform to Trump.
Jeez you have an amazing ability to pick an argument where there isn't one.
You're just like @Baron-Silas-Greenback ... only not.
Two sides of the same coin?
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I used to knock around with a lot of French people back when LP's father went to the 2nd round and was trounced by Chiraq. LePen was like a leper. He garnered support from the very pissed off and the desperate, but there was a stench surrounding him that would never go away. Seems to me that Ms LePen is still tainted by things that were said and done in the past. Being the daughter of the founder doesn't exactly disassociate the party from it's origins. Perhaps a bit like the BNP (although I don't believe they're reformed) or ex-communist parties (Linke in Germany for instance). There's a reputation and legacy there that you just can't shake no matter how hard you try.
Would be very interesting to see how this kind of party would go with a Trump or Farage type character in charge and without the seedy baggage.
*Amusing fact: Automatic spellcheck changes Farage to Garage.
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French Politics