Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz
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@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Nepia said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@RLx31 you leave to fight for a cause that is against 'your country', you lose your rights as a citizen of that country, seems pretty simple.
Simple and wrong. I don't agree that people should be made stateless. Besides, what if you're fighting the "good fight"?
Yeah, I was thinking that, what if someone left to fight for a pro Assad militia against ISIS - they're fighting for the 'enemy' against the other 'enemy'.
What part of "against your country" was so hard to grasp there?
I'll give you a clue; Saefkow-Jacob-Bästlein Organization, Ehrenfeld Group, Free France, Resistance, etc.
Erm, how does that relate to fighting for Assad against ISIS? At any rate it's a bit strange to compare resistance groups in dictatorships and occupied countries with stable western democracies.
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@antipodean yeah nah, if those cnuts that have left NZ to fight FOR ISIS against Kiwi troops, Allies and interests want to come back, they can fuck right off, this act is enough to show they do not value thier citizenship; passport should be cancelled, go live in the desert!
Why should our tax payer pay $100k a year to house them in prison?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Nepia said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@RLx31 you leave to fight for a cause that is against 'your country', you lose your rights as a citizen of that country, seems pretty simple.
Simple and wrong. I don't agree that people should be made stateless. Besides, what if you're fighting the "good fight"?
Yeah, I was thinking that, what if someone left to fight for a pro Assad militia against ISIS - they're fighting for the 'enemy' against the other 'enemy'.
What part of "against your country" was so hard to grasp there?
I'll give you a clue; Saefkow-Jacob-Bästlein Organization, Ehrenfeld Group, Free France, Resistance, etc.
Erm, how does that relate to fighting for Assad against ISIS?
England wasn't for Assad was it? It was in the position of wanting both sides to lose.
Calls to make people stateless are an insane response to one of your citizens doing something you don't like. It should be up to the individual if they wish to renounce citizenship. I also don't agree with States arbitrarily removing citizenship from people who are natural born citizens just because there's somewhere else they might be able to seek citizenship from.
Once you head down that path there will invariably be calls to apply it to some other moral panic.
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@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean yeah nah, if those cnuts that have left NZ to fight FOR ISIS against Kiwi troops, Allies and interests want to come back, they can fuck right off, passport should be cancelled, go live in the desert!
Why should our tax payer pay $100k a year to house them in prison?
Because they're New Zealanders who committed a crime?
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@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Nepia said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@RLx31 you leave to fight for a cause that is against 'your country', you lose your rights as a citizen of that country, seems pretty simple.
Simple and wrong. I don't agree that people should be made stateless. Besides, what if you're fighting the "good fight"?
Yeah, I was thinking that, what if someone left to fight for a pro Assad militia against ISIS - they're fighting for the 'enemy' against the other 'enemy'.
What part of "against your country" was so hard to grasp there?
I'll give you a clue; Saefkow-Jacob-Bästlein Organization, Ehrenfeld Group, Free France, Resistance, etc.
Erm, how does that relate to fighting for Assad against ISIS?
England wasn't for Assad was it? It was in the position of wanting both sides to lose.
Calls to make people stateless are an insane response to one of your citizens doing something you don't like. It should be up to the individual if they wish to renounce citizenship. I also don't agree with States arbitrarily removing citizenship from people who are natural born citizens just because there's somewhere else they might be able to seek citizenship from.
Once you head down that path there will invariably be calls to apply it to some other moral panic.
Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. As far as I'm concerned, in this day and age and if you live in a stable western democracy you forfeit your right to citizenship in that country if you take up arms or provide support through other means for a country or movement that seeks to harm or destroy that country. Screw the taxpayer having to foot the bill for them to rot in jail for life. If they can't be let out into the community then why let them into the country if you don't have to.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Nepia said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@RLx31 you leave to fight for a cause that is against 'your country', you lose your rights as a citizen of that country, seems pretty simple.
Simple and wrong. I don't agree that people should be made stateless. Besides, what if you're fighting the "good fight"?
Yeah, I was thinking that, what if someone left to fight for a pro Assad militia against ISIS - they're fighting for the 'enemy' against the other 'enemy'.
What part of "against your country" was so hard to grasp there?
I'll give you a clue; Saefkow-Jacob-Bästlein Organization, Ehrenfeld Group, Free France, Resistance, etc.
Erm, how does that relate to fighting for Assad against ISIS?
England wasn't for Assad was it? It was in the position of wanting both sides to lose.
Calls to make people stateless are an insane response to one of your citizens doing something you don't like. It should be up to the individual if they wish to renounce citizenship. I also don't agree with States arbitrarily removing citizenship from people who are natural born citizens just because there's somewhere else they might be able to seek citizenship from.
Once you head down that path there will invariably be calls to apply it to some other moral panic.
Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. As far as I'm concerned, in this day and age and if you live in a stable western democracy you forfeit your right to citizenship in that country if you take up arms or provide support through other means for a country or movement that seeks to harm or destroy that country.
What business did England have in Syria? See the problem?
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@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Nepia said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@RLx31 you leave to fight for a cause that is against 'your country', you lose your rights as a citizen of that country, seems pretty simple.
Simple and wrong. I don't agree that people should be made stateless. Besides, what if you're fighting the "good fight"?
Yeah, I was thinking that, what if someone left to fight for a pro Assad militia against ISIS - they're fighting for the 'enemy' against the other 'enemy'.
What part of "against your country" was so hard to grasp there?
I'll give you a clue; Saefkow-Jacob-Bästlein Organization, Ehrenfeld Group, Free France, Resistance, etc.
Erm, how does that relate to fighting for Assad against ISIS?
England wasn't for Assad was it? It was in the position of wanting both sides to lose.
Calls to make people stateless are an insane response to one of your citizens doing something you don't like. It should be up to the individual if they wish to renounce citizenship. I also don't agree with States arbitrarily removing citizenship from people who are natural born citizens just because there's somewhere else they might be able to seek citizenship from.
Once you head down that path there will invariably be calls to apply it to some other moral panic.
Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. As far as I'm concerned, in this day and age and if you live in a stable western democracy you forfeit your right to citizenship in that country if you take up arms or provide support through other means for a country or movement that seeks to harm or destroy that country.
What business did England have in Syria? See the problem?
Sorry what?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Nepia said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@RLx31 you leave to fight for a cause that is against 'your country', you lose your rights as a citizen of that country, seems pretty simple.
Simple and wrong. I don't agree that people should be made stateless. Besides, what if you're fighting the "good fight"?
Yeah, I was thinking that, what if someone left to fight for a pro Assad militia against ISIS - they're fighting for the 'enemy' against the other 'enemy'.
What part of "against your country" was so hard to grasp there?
I'll give you a clue; Saefkow-Jacob-Bästlein Organization, Ehrenfeld Group, Free France, Resistance, etc.
Erm, how does that relate to fighting for Assad against ISIS?
England wasn't for Assad was it? It was in the position of wanting both sides to lose.
Calls to make people stateless are an insane response to one of your citizens doing something you don't like. It should be up to the individual if they wish to renounce citizenship. I also don't agree with States arbitrarily removing citizenship from people who are natural born citizens just because there's somewhere else they might be able to seek citizenship from.
Once you head down that path there will invariably be calls to apply it to some other moral panic.
Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. As far as I'm concerned, in this day and age and if you live in a stable western democracy you forfeit your right to citizenship in that country if you take up arms or provide support through other means for a country or movement that seeks to harm or destroy that country.
What business did England have in Syria? See the problem?
Sorry what?
Didn't realise I needed to spell it out. She was in another sovereign country that was engaged in civil war. Not in East London making pipe bombs.
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Treason: The crime of betraying ones country
IMO this is far different to robbing a petrol station.
If a NZ citizen commited an act of terror in the name of ISIS in NZ (and didnt kill themselves in the act) then by all means, lock em away, throw away the key, or, give them the option for a 1 way trip to Somalia or some other shithole.
I'm with @Rancid-Schnitzel we'll just have to agree to disagree, you aint gonna change my view, like me with you.
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@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean
Treason: The crime of betraying ones countryAs it turns out, treason is a crime in New Zealand.
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@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Nepia said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@RLx31 you leave to fight for a cause that is against 'your country', you lose your rights as a citizen of that country, seems pretty simple.
Simple and wrong. I don't agree that people should be made stateless. Besides, what if you're fighting the "good fight"?
Yeah, I was thinking that, what if someone left to fight for a pro Assad militia against ISIS - they're fighting for the 'enemy' against the other 'enemy'.
What part of "against your country" was so hard to grasp there?
I'll give you a clue; Saefkow-Jacob-Bästlein Organization, Ehrenfeld Group, Free France, Resistance, etc.
Erm, how does that relate to fighting for Assad against ISIS?
England wasn't for Assad was it? It was in the position of wanting both sides to lose.
Calls to make people stateless are an insane response to one of your citizens doing something you don't like. It should be up to the individual if they wish to renounce citizenship. I also don't agree with States arbitrarily removing citizenship from people who are natural born citizens just because there's somewhere else they might be able to seek citizenship from.
Once you head down that path there will invariably be calls to apply it to some other moral panic.
Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. As far as I'm concerned, in this day and age and if you live in a stable western democracy you forfeit your right to citizenship in that country if you take up arms or provide support through other means for a country or movement that seeks to harm or destroy that country.
What business did England have in Syria? See the problem?
Sorry what?
Didn't realise I needed to spell it out. She was in another sovereign country that was engaged in civil war. Not in East London making pipe bombs.
And she joined a state (or whatever you want to call it) that was waging war against the West and has committed acts of terrorism to prove it. It's one thing if she joined what was exclusively a resistance movement against Assad, but that was most certainly not the case. Are you seriously suggesting that her motivation to join ISIS was to take out Assad?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
And she joined a state (or whatever you want to call it) that was waging war against the West and has committed acts of terrorism to prove it.
If only the UK had passed some legislation dealing with terrorism.
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@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
And she joined a state (or whatever you want to call it) that was waging war against the West and has committed acts of terrorism to prove it.
If only the UK had passed some legislation dealing with terrorism.
So do you think she went to Syria because she wanted to take out Assad?
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@antipodean said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
And she joined a state (or whatever you want to call it) that was waging war against the West and has committed acts of terrorism to prove it.
If only the UK had passed some legislation dealing with terrorism.
Or if only they'd passed some legislation dealing with removal of citizenship.
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@Siam said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
What about a case by case assessment to gauge contrition, information potential and circumstances?
Or should we just make one size fits all blanket legislation? I mean, shit, the latter works just perfectly for identity politics!
There's plenty of discretion in how the British Nationality Act 1981 could be applied - or not applied, e.g.
F117(2)The Secretary of State may by order deprive a person of a citizenship status if the Secretary of State is satisfied that deprivation is conducive to the public good.
That leaves enough room for a smart Secretary of State to drive a bus through either retaining or removing her citizenship if there's use either way...
The issue now though seems to be Bangladesh essentially removing her right to citizenship, given the claim that she's never been there...
F118(4A)But that does not prevent the Secretary of State from making an order under subsection (2) to deprive a person of a citizenship status if—
(a)the citizenship status results from the person's naturalisation,
(b)the Secretary of State is satisfied that the deprivation is conducive to the public good because the person, while having that citizenship status, has conducted him or herself in a manner which is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom, any of the Islands, or any British overseas territory, and
(c)the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds for believing that the person is able, under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom, to become a national of such a country or territory.] -
@Donsteppa to be clear, I'm all for ANY course of action deemed appropriate for this girl. I baulk a bit at a " burn all witches" approach to subsequent cases simply because life in the last decade has seemingly been all about treating people by their identity, not their unique circumstances. And that fails
But there's definitely an option for excommunication and punishment after assessing all the facts. -
@MN5 said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
They can fucking eat any of the other flavours can't they?
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@MN5 said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Slammed by who exactly?
A couple of tramnies weren’t sure if the chocolate was for them?