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If you haven’t read Saul Alinsky’s “Rules For Radicals,” at least try to read a summary.
It was a bible when I was a punk rock leftie in university. As I got older, and hopefully a little wiser, it started to dawn on me some of my fellow foot soldiers were smug self-righteous hate-filled slugs who abandoned their principles regularly if it meant “winning” a battle. I didn’t want to be a “member” of that club and drifted out of it. And thankfully, being open to challenging dissident views helped formulate my thinking and break out of tribal orthodoxies.
All the same, it’s amazing how Alinsky’s manifesto has become the instruction manual of todays’ authoritarian left, even the ones who’ve never heard of him.
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@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
right now it's the crazies of the left running wild. That might be difficult to swallow but I don't see how it can be disputed.
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
You may say the far left radicals that kick off these mobs are a minority, and you'd be right, but those lunatics have freaking way too much sway in society today.
Really? Some high profile evidence to the contrary below..
I'm not sure how that is evidence to the contrary? What have those people got to do with my points about outrage mobs, corporate virtual signaling and the subsequent effects on free speech?
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Well which is it?
“We do not support the views of Silver Fern Maria Folau and have made our views known to her employer Netball NZ,” ANZ media manager Stefan Herrick said in a statement.
“We value our partnership with Netball NZ and any suggestion we have tried to pressure them is absolutely incorrect,” he added.
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@Rembrandt I expect they can tell Netball NZ they do not support the views of Maria and leave it at that, meaning there has not been any pressure on them to do anything further, leaving NNZ to do what they feel is right (nothing or something)
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
Well which is it?
“We do not support the views of Silver Fern Maria Folau and have made our views known to her employer Netball NZ,” ANZ media manager Stefan Herrick said in a statement.
“We value our partnership with Netball NZ and any suggestion we have tried to pressure them is absolutely incorrect,” he added.
Example 9756 of headline that doesn’t match the quote.
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The major sponsor goes out of their way to tell a sporting organisation that they don't like the views of one of their employees husband.
That is considerable pressure whether they want to admit it or not. Lets be honest Netball probably don't have sponsors lining up. Message would have been received loud and clear.
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@booboo said in The Folau Factor:
Exactly. We're supposed to take guidance, advice and morality lessons from these corporations?
We're not as dumb as your echo chambers are. fluffybunnies -
@JC said in The Folau Factor:
@Jaguares4real I think where you’ve gone wrong is thinking that there will be any winners in this. There won’t, you’ll end up with someone who looks like a reactionary dinosaur and an organisation that looks managerially incompetent. And a load of lawyers buying new boats.
I think you’re also going wrong in using terms like scorched earth. There’s no real malice here, just two sides that believe they’re right. And as with many situations where principle is involved, both parties have said things on the spur of the moment that they probably now regret, as they’ve reduced the opportunities to walk back some of the rhetoric and enable a graceful resolution.
Everybody loses. I’m not sure how that’s particularly entertaining or edifying. But that’s just me.
No real malice? Are you fucking joking??? How anyone could think there has been no real malice in this event is laughable.
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I think the strength of feeling has been competely misjudged form the beginning. Nobody actually really cared about the original tweet, if the media hadnt pounced it wouldnt have raised a ripple. But the some claimed to be offended.
Then it spiralled. It would ahve had been nipped in the bud at the very beginning with a bland criticism of his views by Aussie rugby. End of
But nooooooo
Instead we now have this. Alot of people have donated a lot of money in direct anger at Qantas and the ARU, this is a massive net negative for them. They responded to a lynch mob... and just created an much bigger one coming for them.What genius thought attacking someone for a religious belief was a winning strategy.
The ARU is rooted...and it is self inflicted. Idiots
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@Snowy said in The Folau Factor:
@booboo Pretty sure that he did that deliberately...
Well, I'm glad one person got it.
@Kirwan said in The Folau Factor:
This a difficult enough argument without introducing straw man arguments with stuff people have not said.
Couldn't agree more.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@JC said in The Folau Factor:
@Jaguares4real I think where you’ve gone wrong is thinking that there will be any winners in this. There won’t, you’ll end up with someone who looks like a reactionary dinosaur and an organisation that looks managerially incompetent. And a load of lawyers buying new boats.
I think you’re also going wrong in using terms like scorched earth. There’s no real malice here, just two sides that believe they’re right. And as with many situations where principle is involved, both parties have said things on the spur of the moment that they probably now regret, as they’ve reduced the opportunities to walk back some of the rhetoric and enable a graceful resolution.
Everybody loses. I’m not sure how that’s particularly entertaining or edifying. But that’s just me.
No real malice? Are you fucking joking??? How anyone could think there has been no real malice in this event is laughable.
Nope, not joking. I agree there has been plenty of malice from a load of people who’ve jumped into this.
But I don’t agree that IF meant what he originally tweeted to be harmful. And to be fair I don’t think the ARU wanted to hurt IF particularly either. They way misjudged, lacked the backbone to tell their sponsor that management of their staff was an internal matter, and completely screwed up the HR part.
The leaks that happened after, the coordinated campaigns to unperson IF, the never ending media shitstorm, the posturing politicians using this for virtue signalling, yeah they are malicious.
Maybe I should have been clearer in separating the original parties to the dispute from the people who are choosing a side afterwards.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
Farage reminds me that your lot are also engaged in that wonderful practice of milkshaking. Kindly endorsed by a large corporation.
Your lot?
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
Farage reminds me that your lot are also engaged in that wonderful practice of milkshaking. Kindly endorsed by a large corporation.
Your lot?
Unless you have split identities that wasn't directed at you.
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I think most Australian rugby fans were broadly supportive of RA, and still are. Certainly many opposed them too, but my read was that these people were in the minority.
This is now way larger, clearly, with plenty of people weighing in across the country and the World who have never seen a rugby match, nor understand the sporting context.
My only point would be to state that the donations don't mean Folau enjoys majority support in the community. It's a deeply divisive issue, and RA were probably rooted either way.
I could see a scenario where Israel keeps his contract, continues to post and alienates a fair chunk of fans. He becomes a distraction, loses personal sponsors, maybe is booed by fans. And then the critics would be at RA's throats for not taking action.
They were fucked either way.
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@barbarian I dunno. I think all they had to do was follow their own disciplinary process, rather than signal their outraged virtue via Twitter. Get all the facts, work out if he did break the code of conduct, consult with lawyers and then make a public statement. Might still have turned into a shitshow but at least they would have looked better than they do now.
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
Farage reminds me that your lot are also engaged in that wonderful practice of milkshaking. Kindly endorsed by a large corporation.
Your lot?
You have been assimilated.
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@barbarian I dunno. I think all they had to do was follow their own disciplinary process, rather than signal their outraged virtue via Twitter. Get all the facts, work out if he did break the code of conduct, consult with lawyers and then make a public statement. Might still have turned into a shitshow but at least they would have looked better than they do now.
I think it would have 100% turned into a shitshow whether they did that or not.
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@barbarian said in The Folau Factor:
I think most Australian rugby fans were broadly supportive of RA, and still are. Certainly many opposed them too, but my read was that these people were in the minority.
This is now way larger, clearly, with plenty of people weighing in across the country and the World who have never seen a rugby match, nor understand the sporting context.
My only point would be to state that the donations don't mean Folau enjoys majority support in the community. It's a deeply divisive issue, and RA were probably rooted either way.
I could see a scenario where Israel keeps his contract, continues to post and alienates a fair chunk of fans. He becomes a distraction, loses personal sponsors, maybe is booed by fans. And then the critics would be at RA's throats for not taking action.
They were fucked either way.
Totally agree, which is why they were absolutely nuts to re-sign him last year. With Qantas breathing down their neck and the media ready to pounce at the slightest hint of controversy, it just wasn't worth the risk.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
Totally agree, which is why they were absolutely nuts to re-sign him last year. With Qantas breathing down their neck and the media ready to pounce at the slightest hint of controversy, it just wasn't worth the risk.
Funnily enough I was going to include a sentence which acknowledged your specific views on this matter!
It's certainly a fair point.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions