P and all that jazz

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crazy Horse" data-cid="559012" data-time="1455601995">
<div>
Interesting. I have found drugs on people from all walks of life, but I never found ice on anyone other than a person on the downward spiral. Do you have any stats or links backing your assertion that many people lead normal lives on Ice? Anecdotally it does not appear that way to me.
 
Meth/Ice/P users all have a look that any Police Officer/Ambo/Doctor recognises, but one that I don't have the words to explain - almost like their body is eating itself and their soul knows it but can't do a damn thing. Often I look at a person's old mug shots chronologically and the change in their physical appearance is stark. Sometimes when I give a shit, it is heartbreaking.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
As the drug is illegal the world over, it is highly unlikely that will be reliable statistics available.
 
I did however find this....<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/methamphetamine-facts'>http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/methamphetamine-facts</a>
 
<ul><li>The proportion of Americans who use methamphetamine on a monthly basis has hovered in the range of 0.2 percent to 0.3 percent since 1999.Almost 11 million Americans have tried methamphetamine at least once â€“ far fewer than those who have tried inhalants (23 million), psychedelics (34 million), cocaine (34 million), or marijuana (100 million). Of those 10.3 million, only 1.3 million used methamphetamine in the last year; and only 512,000 used it within the last 30 days. The estimated number of semi-regular methamphetamine users in the U.S. (those who use once a month or more) equals less than one quarter of one percent of the population (0.2 percent).</li>
</ul> 
So in America at least, the meth isn't as addictive as the NZ media portrays.... I don't think we have some kind of super drug that they don't have.
 
The following drugs have the same basic structure as meth and are widely prescribed by doctors the world over. Aderal, Ritalin, Desoxyn. Sure there are some cases of addiction occurring as a result, but it's highly unlikely that doctors would continue prescribing them if it was a high percentage.
 
And we all know that amphetimines are used commonly by pilots and soldiers during military campaigns.
 
 
Crazy... I've only just realised you are cop, of course you are going to see the worst side of the drug. I completely agree that there are people in NZ for whom meth has completely ruined their lives. But my point is, do you think there will be any more such people if it is legalised? I tend to think if we bring things like this out in the open, it will encourage people to seek help for such addictions, not turn them into criminals.
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="559020" data-time="1455607576">
<div>
Fact? Really? Where is the research to back up your claim? Because I think it is complete and utter bollox.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
See above.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="559041" data-time="1455616754">
<div>
Indeed
 
Ben Goldacre is sort of my go to guy for debunking bullshit in medicine & the press (Flat Earth News is a fantastic read) -
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.badscience.net/2009/06/this-is-my-column-this-is-my-column-on-drugs-any-questions/'>http://www.badscience.net/2009/06/this-is-my-column-this-is-my-column-on-drugs-any-questions/</a>
 
"In the case of cocaine, there is an even more striking precedent for evidence being ignored: during the early 1990s the World Health Organisation conducted what is probably the largest ever study of global cocaine use. In March 1995 they released a briefing kit which summarised their conclusions, with some tantalising bullet points."
 
he then lists all the findings, vasically most of the press is bullshit
 
"At the point where mild cocaine use was described in positive tones, the Americans presumably blew some kind of outrage fuse. This report was never published, because just two months after the press briefing was released, at the 48th World Health Assembly, the US representative to WHO threatened to withdraw US funding for all their research projects and interventions unless the organisation â€œdissociated itself from the conclusions of the studyâ€ and cancelled the publication."
 
 
 
I'm assuming he means "everyone I thought was stupid or a fluffybunny". So thats everyone.
 
Tho' he was working in finance. And was friends with them. So I'm leaning towards believing him.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Love Ben Goldacre,

JC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cookie" data-cid="559042" data-time="1455616895">
<div>
Baron - if ever a drug wasn't suited to a certain type of individual then I think Coke and finance industry (especially back in the day) is pretty high up there. Competitive, compulsive, over-confident personalities, coupled with long hours and huge stress - no wonder so many have burned out, jacked it in and moved out to the country. 

</div>
</blockquote>
Funnily enough although there is certainly access to drugs in the industry the only people I came across who used coke were lower level operational people (the sort who told people they were "In Finance" when they were actually an input clerk who just happened to be working for LloydsTSB rather than, say, British Gas) playing up to the stereotype.
 
The dealmakers from the investment banking houses favoured speed, and at least in my experience most would tell you it was definitely doing them harm but they took it because it was the only way they could keep going for 20 hours a day. There were very few, if any, who took it because they thought it was cool and, maybe because they tended to be smarter than the average Joe a lot of them could map the impact it was having on their bodies and their relationships. When you're working a hundred hour week though is it the drugs or the lack of balance in your life doing the damage? Who can tell?
 
And contrary to the stereotype I don't think I ever knew a dealer or trader who used. To be fair those who worked for me were unlikely to tell me if they were but secrets were pretty hard to keep.
 
Alcohol abuse, on the other hand, was routine and often way out of control.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="559025" data-time="1455608899">
<div>
Without exception? How big was your sample size, roughly? 
Good friends of mine are casual coke users who are stand up people, raising their kids responsibly and holding down senior corporate jobs. They're not "addicts" as such, though that depends whether you draw the distinction.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Dunno... probably 15-20 people I knew well.
 
And I didn't say they were going off the rails, I was saying they are heading in the wrong direction.

Hooroo

I don't know of any mates that partake in Class A now. Some smoke dope once or twice every couple of years. All my freinds that used to do tabs and coke in Europe avoid it now which surprises me as I kind of assumed that some of them would burn out in life.
 
I can definitely tell that some of the spark has gone from the heavier users though. They are fine but just a little affected in my opinion.
 
I never tried class A purely becasue I loved booze, Cigs and coffee and I knew if I tried, I would have liked, so I never gave myself the opportunity.
 
I did once dip the tip of my little finger into coke to see what it tasted like and was astounded that people snorted to what I thought tasted like dirt, pretty much. I wanted to see what the fuss was about in terms of intake (rather than effect)

WillieTheWaiter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="559094" data-time="1455662438">
<div>
I did once dip the tip of my little finger into coke to see what it tasted like and was astounded that people snorted to what I thought tasted like dirt, pretty much. I wanted to see what the fuss was about in terms of intake (rather than effect)
</div>
</blockquote>
 
it's not farking food.. not too many tastebuds in your nose dickhead

Hooroo

Where to start.....

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="WillieTheWaiter" data-cid="559134" data-time="1455676666">
<div>
it's not farking food.. not too many tastebuds in your nose dickhead
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-12-26/health/fl-jjps-taste-1226-20121226_1_flavors-taste-buds-smell'>http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-12-26/health/fl-jjps-taste-1226-20121226_1_flavors-taste-buds-smell</a>
 
 
Although it is Wednesday....... mmmmmm?

SammyC

His point still stands though... I don't think anyone uses coke for its wonderful taste.

WillieTheWaiter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="559025" data-time="1455608899">
<div>
Good friends of mine are casual coke users who are stand up people, raising their kids responsibly and holding down senior corporate jobs. They're not "addicts" as such, though that depends whether you draw the distinction.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
yep. I would know a good few people that would fit that exact description.
 
In fact in NZ the only people I know that can afford coke are those that are doing extremely well in life. ha!

Hooroo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="559141" data-time="1455677274">
<div>
His point still stands though... I don't think anyone uses coke for its wonderful taste.
</div>
</blockquote>
I still thought there would be some sort of less nasty flavour to it. (Hense why I tasted it)

WillieTheWaiter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="559136" data-time="1455676795">
<div>
Where to start.....
</div>
</blockquote>
 
my point is that it's not an exercise in fine dining...

WillieTheWaiter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="559145" data-time="1455677515">
<div>
I still thought there would be some sort of less nasty flavour to it. (Hense why I tasted it)
</div>
</blockquote>
 
less nasty flavour than most other sh*t!

Crazy Horse

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="559073" data-time="1455653867">
<div>
 I completely agree that there are people in NZ for whom meth has completely ruined their lives. But my point is, do you think there will be any more such people if it is legalised? I tend to think if we bring things like this out in the open, it will encourage people to seek help for such addictions, not turn them into criminals.
 
 
 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Don't get me wrong, I agree with some of the things you are saying. The system we have now is not working. I am just passing on some of my observations when it comes to Meth.

Baron Silas Greenback

Statistically speaking a good number of ferners would do drugs and some will be addicts. Those addicts would either avoid the thread or post that taking drugs is no big deal and that lots of successful people do it. It us of course possible, but less likely that the addicts might also just lie and say they have never done drugs.
 
No regular drug user on here is going to say... 'yeah I do drugs and it is a bad idea and not helping my life'

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="559171" data-time="1455686645">
<div>
Statistically speaking a good number of ferners would do drugs and some will be addicts. Those addicts would either avoid the thread or post that taking drugs is no big deal and that lots of successful people do it. It us of course possible, but less likely that the addicts might also just lie and say they have never done drugs.
 
No regular drug user on here is going to say... 'yeah I do drugs and it is a bad idea and not helping my life'
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
i can think of a few...

Siam

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="559171" data-time="1455686645">
<div>
 
 
No regular drug user on here is going to say... 'yeah I do drugs and it is a bad idea and not helping my life'
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Wondering if that would apply to alcohol use
 
I also wonder if cocaine was the legal drug, manufactured in less pure forms, regulated and sold legally - like alcohol is if there'd be any difference. 
 
i.e. Alcohol is the illegal life and home wrecker dramatised in the media and made and sold illegally. Examples such as moonshine and some of the rice whiskey in Asia is fucken dangerous and in the case of "lao kao" use in the rural areas the toll on lives and families is similar to the first world drugs - on it from sunrise to sunset, just sitting around getting blind, literally so in some cases.
 
Conclusion: Humans just gotta get wasted, and suggesting one is less harmful than the other might not be correct. 
 
One thing for sure, the efforts and strategies used to prevent the widespread sale and use of illegal drugs sure isn't effective. Nothing's really changed in my 40+ years on the planet in terms of beating the scourge of illegal drugs

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="559171" data-time="1455686645">
<div>
 
 
No regular drug user on here is going to say... 'yeah I do drugs and it is a bad idea and not helping my life'
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Maybe not right now, but I think a few ferners did say that to themselves at one point in their life.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="559182" data-time="1455689639">
<div>
Conclusion: Humans just gotta get wasted, and suggesting one is less harmful than the other might not be correct. 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Yep. People wanna get messed up, they'll find a way. The drug isn't necessarily the problem, nor does the legality of it necessarily correspond to its harmfulness.

Rembrandt

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="559145" data-time="1455677515">
I still thought there would be some sort of less nasty flavour to it. (Hense why I tasted it)</blockquote>
 
Here's a story for you on the unheralded benefits of coke. A few years back me and a few mates went out for a bit of a pub crawl in London. I think it might have been one of those days when you have like two or three Super rugby games on followed by a 6 nations, so basically a rugby pub crawl from 7:30am. and going on from there. 
Unfortunately I woke up that morning with the most incredibly sore ulcer I had ever experienced, it wasn't particularly big but it seemed to be right in the middle of my tounge. I tried to get through the day but talking, drinking and especially eating were so eye wateringly painful that I was having an absolutely miserable time. 
In an attempt to try and relieve the situation I made sure to stop off at a pharmacy every time we switched pubs and tried all sorts of so called remedies. At best I got relief for seconds at worse some of the medications actually made it worse. 
Anyway we eventually made it back to my flat which normally became the afterparty place most weekends. I was about ready to just leave them all to it and bring my miserable ass to bed early when a good mate of mine found an empty coke baggie in his wallet from a previous weekend and remembering the numbing sensation suggested I lick the bag. 
So I did and immediately found complete amazing instant relief. I could talk, I could eat, I could drink. It only lasted 20 or so minutes but I only needed a very small portion of the empty bag on my tounge to get the relief..Anyway even though the bag probably would have done me the night everyone was so impressed that this miracle powder had brought their friend back to good spirits we figured it would be rude not to get some more in and see where the night took us. 
I was dabbing for about 3 days before the ulcer pain was bearable enough to go without, never through out an empty baggie after that.

The Silver Fern

P and all that jazz