Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?
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similar to important stuff like financial literacy this stuff needs to be talked about in schools, and not just when you take PE as an actual subject in 4th form onward (or whatever). I know there is a lot of healthy living and body science stuff in primary and even ECE education, but it's not having much of an impact at individual level as far as I can see - or it gets overwhelmed by other decision making like cost/time/addiction.
There was a series about folks on the path to gastro surgery in the last year or so that was fascinating. Had some of the candidates talking about their challenges with food and all the variables that came into it. Some big pressures around mental health, body image etc as you'd expect. Some folks managed to make (and hopefully maintain) some big changes to their approach to food, but for others they couldn't cut sufficient weight to be able to get the surgery.
One bit that resonated with me was a woman talking about the sensation of eating and how the physical feeling of it brought her joy/satisfaction. I kind of got that - nothing to do with the chip butty I may have been eating - and how changing your eating can feel like living a lesser life. There was poverty involved in that scenario so it was kind of like food was the main thing that was good in her life, even though it (the volume) was killing her.
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@taniwharugby said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@voodoo think is with a chocolate bar, lets say it costs $0.50c add GST and you are at $0.575c, and is sold for $1, add 50% tax on it and it is $0.75c cost, they can still sell at $1.50 and I bet sales wouldnt drop much at that cost, but make more and still sell plenty cos they are at the check out.
@gt12 I had a body scan thingee last week, my BMI is 32.2...
I hope you're taller than I am!
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@nzzp said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@Kirwan said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@Hooroo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@chimoaus said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@Kirwan Surely price sensitivity has some impact on buying decisions? I am all for increasing taxes on fast food etc and using that money to educate people, subsidise fruit & veg and help pay for medical expenses.
I know I refuse to pay $4.80 for a drink at the servo but I am much more likely to buy it when it is $1 at the supermarket. Surely $1 a litre is too cheap for fizzy drinks?
Is education and personal responsibility enough to arrest obesity rates?
But it will still be a $1 a litre at the supermarket despite the increase
Yep, loss leaders are a thing.
100g sugar + 1 L water + flavouring = a few cents for a litre. Tax ain't going to change it, and there ain't a loss leader.
That, and they brand the hell out of it and sell that shit for $2-$10/litre depending on location and volume. It's a great business to be in; output value >>>> input costs
Plus all their variable and fixed costs, selling costs (including freight). It does make me smile when people look at the cost of something as if it puts itself together magically and just appears on a shelf.
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@Hooroo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@nzzp said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@Kirwan said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@Hooroo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@chimoaus said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@Kirwan Surely price sensitivity has some impact on buying decisions? I am all for increasing taxes on fast food etc and using that money to educate people, subsidise fruit & veg and help pay for medical expenses.
I know I refuse to pay $4.80 for a drink at the servo but I am much more likely to buy it when it is $1 at the supermarket. Surely $1 a litre is too cheap for fizzy drinks?
Is education and personal responsibility enough to arrest obesity rates?
But it will still be a $1 a litre at the supermarket despite the increase
Yep, loss leaders are a thing.
100g sugar + 1 L water + flavouring = a few cents for a litre. Tax ain't going to change it, and there ain't a loss leader.
That, and they brand the hell out of it and sell that shit for $2-$10/litre depending on location and volume. It's a great business to be in; output value >>>> input costs
Plus all their variable and fixed costs, selling costs (including freight). It does make me smile when people look at the cost of something as if it puts itself together magically and just appears on a shelf.
oh absolutely. The point I'm making, though, is a sugar tax isn't going to change the price, and that the material costs really aren't that high. Worldwide Coca cola amatil turn over $5B in NZ/Aus (and a few pacific countries), and make 10% profit (on paper; transfer pricing not known). It's a good business to be in
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@taniwharugby said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@gt12 I had a body scan thingee last week, my BMI is 32.2...
I've thought about getting one, but it would just confirm what I already know. The damage is obvious when I have a pair of shorts and a shirt from when I met my wife. I can't fit into the shorts and what used to be a tight shirt is now comfortably a size too large. I almost weight the same as I did back then too.
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I shouldn't really comment on this thread, i have a metabolism that allows me to eat pretty much what i want (not quite now that i am in to my mid-40s) and not stack too much weight on.
that said, i work out 5-6 times a week, and i don't eat breakfast. And i eat a lot of fresh food, the vast majority cooked/prepared by me. I snack on fruit, because i love fruit. i also really fucking love lollies and M&Ms, so i have those too.
Don't drink piss during the week. Do cook your own food. Do make an effort around portion control. Fucking move. That should be enough to make most people fit enough and healthy enough to be in a good spot. Do more if you want.
And do it before you are a fat mess, because once it's there, moving it is fucking hard.
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@antipodean I did it more to get a reading on my visceral fat, which is fine.
I know I could lose some kegs round the middle, my body fat % was about what I thought it would be, but my muscle mass was better than I thought (given I really had no idea on these things anyway)
But since doing it, make some tweaks in my diet, lost 2kg in a week.
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@mariner4life I run (not at all) the other way - or should I say weigh! I look at food and get thicc. I know my food habits are very similar to my dad who LOVES his kai and has been overweight to some degree for his whole adult life. The whole 'don't leave food on your plate' or 'don't waste good kai' argument kind of sucks if you are being given way too much food and doesn't really instill good habits for later life.
When you actually see what portion sizes should look like it can be a rude awakening!!
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@mariner4life said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
i have a metabolism that allows me to eat pretty much what i want
That was me until I got glandular fever. Then it changed so I only look at food to put on weight
@mariner4life said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
do it before you are a fat mess, because once it's there, moving it is fucking hard.
Fucking aye
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@Paekakboyz said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@mariner4life I run (not at all) the other way - or should I say weigh! I look at food and get thicc. I know my food habits are very similar to my dad who LOVES his kai and has been overweight to some degree for his whole adult life. The whole 'don't leave food on your plate' or 'don't waste good kai' argument kind of sucks if you are being given way too much food and doesn't really instill good habits for later life.
When you actually see what portion sizes should look like it can be a rude awakening!!
i am constantly shocked when Mrs Mariner tells me what a portion of steak should be. Do they even sell them that small?
It was a bit shit when i was playing rugby. My natural weight is where i am at the moment, mid-80s. I had to stay at mid-90s which involves an enormous amount of food, balanced with a huge amount of training so the weight went to the right places. I used to eat buckets of lunch.
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@nzzp people hate paying tax. Put the tax paid up there in lights and it may change views.
If it sells now for $1, then put 10pct tax it’s now $1.10. If corporate is willing to sell it at 90c then the end price doesn’t change. But if its advertised at 90c + 10c tax .... small mentality change.
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@MajorRage said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@nzzp people hate paying tax. Put the tax paid up there in lights and it may change views.
If it sells now for $1, then put 10pct tax it’s now $1.10. If corporate is willing to sell it at 90c then the end price doesn’t change. But if its advertised at 90c + 10c tax .... small mentality change.
hang on - so the proposal is to tax sugary things extra, not to tax sugar? I've misunderstood that then - I thought it was a 'tax on sugar' - ie the more sugar, the higher the tax; not a 'pick things we don't like and tax them'.
Dangerous as fruit based drinks can have very high natural sugar contents.
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@MajorRage i understand the argument for tax, but I'm not really for it, for 2 reasons
I'm not convinced taxes actually work. If they did, people would smoke and drink waaaay less. The taxes on those items are absolutely massive. There has been a decrease in smoking, but i am convinced education and other measures have had more effect than the continual price rises.
Also, governments are addicted to tax. And there is zero chance a "sugar/fat" tax is going towards health initiatives. They may say that, but ultimately it goes in to the pot and spent on election bribes and what ever their pet projects are.
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@mariner4life said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
I shouldn't really comment on this thread, i have a metabolism that allows me to eat pretty much what i want (not quite now that i am in to my mid-40s) and not stack too much weight on
Things I used to say... My body was always super responsive to effort and I took that for granted for decades. Now, not so much.
And do it before you are a fat mess, because once it's there, moving it is fucking hard.
Amen. Maintenance makes a massive difference.
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@mariner4life said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@MajorRage i understand the argument for tax, but I'm not really for it, for 2 reasons
I'm not convinced taxes actually work. If they did, people would smoke and drink waaaay less. The taxes on those items are absolutely massive. There has been a decrease in smoking, but i am convinced education and other measures have had more effect than the continual price rises.
Also, governments are addicted to tax. And there is zero chance a "sugar/fat" tax is going towards health initiatives. They may say that, but ultimately it goes in to the pot and spent on election bribes and what ever their pet projects are.
I think taxes on smoking had a massive effect on the number of smokers. It doesn't happen straight away but if you keep increasing the tax and taking the product further and further away in affordability then it makes people think.
For booze it seems that the tax just moves with general costs and inflation so there hasn't really been that in your face disincentive.My view on a sugar tax is like GST on food. There will be sod all difference in our supermarket controlled marketplace that works to price points. They know what someone is willing to pay at retail level so will demand either a reduction in wholesale price or, in the case of reduced GST, will increase the margin.
In short without controlling the market tax changes will get absorbed.
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@nzzp said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@MajorRage said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@nzzp people hate paying tax. Put the tax paid up there in lights and it may change views.
If it sells now for $1, then put 10pct tax it’s now $1.10. If corporate is willing to sell it at 90c then the end price doesn’t change. But if its advertised at 90c + 10c tax .... small mentality change.
hang on - so the proposal is to tax sugary things extra, not to tax sugar? I've misunderstood that then - I thought it was a 'tax on sugar' - ie the more sugar, the higher the tax; not a 'pick things we don't like and tax them'.
Dangerous as fruit based drinks can have very high natural sugar contents.
Yep. There are heaps of things with high sugar. Juice, breakfast cereals, yoghurts, muesli bars etc. Shit, a heap of dairy stuff will make you a fat arse as well.
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@Crucial said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
In short without controlling the market tax changes will get absorbed.
Just thinking about it, for alcohol there is a proposal for a price 'floor' (minimum charge per unit). Despite the big taxes, people find ways to produce and sell it really cheaply
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@nzzp said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@MajorRage said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@nzzp people hate paying tax. Put the tax paid up there in lights and it may change views.
If it sells now for $1, then put 10pct tax it’s now $1.10. If corporate is willing to sell it at 90c then the end price doesn’t change. But if its advertised at 90c + 10c tax .... small mentality change.
hang on - so the proposal is to tax sugary things extra, not to tax sugar? I've misunderstood that then - I thought it was a 'tax on sugar' - ie the more sugar, the higher the tax; not a 'pick things we don't like and tax them'.
Dangerous as fruit based drinks can have very high natural sugar contents.
Yep. There are heaps of things with high sugar. Juice, breakfast cereals, yoghurts, muesli bars etc.
The natural vs added will be an absolute bitch
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What are people's thoughts on restricting advertising, use of toys, cartoons etc. The industry is quick to say they advertise responsibly but the entire point of advertising is to get people to buy your product. They don't pay for ads to simply "inform" the public about their wonderful product. They spend millions figuring out exactly how to get kids/young people to buy their shit.
I remember playing rugby and the player of the day got a Mcdonalds voucher for a free Happy Meal from memory. Good way to get my family to go to Maccas after the game. I also remember reading that nearly every kid on the planet knows who Ronald Mcdonald is.
