Coronavirus - Overall
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@antipodean and here I was thinking they were simply IDW theorists. So enlighten me to their objections and concerns about borders, lockdowns etc
I'm not qualified to adequately present their expert opinions. Nor am I interested in inadvertently misrepresenting them so you can save face on the internet. If you're genuinely interested, try googling.
I have.
Then why ask?
Weinstein describes himself as a a theoretical evolutionary biologist. Ioannidis has well read theories about the 'falseness' of research findings and his views on how false COVID mortality predictions were (according to his theories) threw egg all over his face when his numbers were wildy (and dangerously) low.
Someone who understands immunobiology and a Professor of Epidemiology and Population Health. So from your cherry-picking we still have an epidemiologist and health policy expert.
I have no doubt that these are intelligent people but they are coming at this from very ivory tower theoretical views that often don't hold up.
As opposed to the rampant guesswork by Neil Ferguson?
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@antipodean how’s Ioannidis’ theoretical prediction of 1% infection and 10k deaths in the US holding up?
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@antipodean how’s Ioannidis’ theoretical prediction of 1% infection and 10k deaths in the US holding up?
So dissatisfied with me not misrepresenting the work and statements of others you're doing it yourself. Have fun.
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I’m not trying to tell you that these “experts “ should be dismissed just that their theories are just that and should be looked at alongside others instead of being taken as gospel especially when there is proof of them being wrong at times.
They may have persuasive arguments but it is based on opinions as much as the next expert. -
@crucial said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I’m not trying to tell you that these “experts “ should be dismissed just that their theories are just that and should be looked at alongside others instead of being taken as gospel especially when there is proof of them being wrong at times.
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The overall percentage of deaths vs recovery and the average age of death still dominate the data, regardless of the " killing grandma" propaganda never seems to be addressed. Add in the cost/benefit analysis and I think it's healthy to be continually asking questions of politicians and experts.
Then the 28 days with covid being a very vague measure of cause and effect. Still not convinced nose swabs measure exactly what they purport.
Then there's the blatant obfuscation of the cause of the pandemic. Imagine having your house burned down and the fire brigade refusing to examine what started the fire.
These seem like flies in the ointment to me but we keep smothering the ointment on nevertheless.
Obviously, as I've done here, reducing the complexities of solutions and situations doesn't serve any purpose, but a year on and these questions are not addressed in any depth via politicians and mainstream
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@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@crucial no. But for god's sake don't explain the fallacy, just keep your knowledge hidden so people can fawn over how clever you are
Using the outcomes of intervention measures as a reason that they weren't needed .
Unfortunately I also waited long enough to hear his anti-mask freedom to breathe rubbish as well
The clip belongs in the conspiracy theory thread. -
@crucial ok. I thought it was a visual representation of the incredibly low fatality rate of those who contract covid and then die. Yes they added comments about the incredibly high average age of death.
Basically the message was to question why all the measures and sacrifices of the populace for a virus that kills a specific and tiny range of people - compared to who gets it and doesn't die.
I think that is different from what you're talking about which is all about becoming infected by this virus that kills less people than poor nutrition.
I think you're confusing man made and socially engineered disruptions to life vs the fact that as far as killer viruses go, this one is a pussy, if you're not 10 years away from dying "naturally". The media paint a picture of death at every inhale. The data says death rate for the overall population is actually very very low on the number of ways anyone will die this year.
So yeah, let's continue to change everyone's life for a disease that kills less kids than falling off a table or down a flight of stairs. Maybe we should ban all kids on stairs?
Lockdowns and masks hasn't changed it's lethality. Vaccines, ivermectin, vitamin d and hydroxychloroquine might though
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@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@crucial ok. I thought it was a visual representation of the incredibly low fatality rate of those who contract covid and then die. Yes they added comments about the incredibly high average age of death.
Basically the message was to question why all the measures and sacrifices of the populace for a virus that kills a specific and tiny range of people - compared to who gets it and doesn't die.
I think that is different from what you're talking about which is all about becoming infected by this virus that kills less people than poor nutrition.
I think you're confusing man made and socially engineered disruptions to life vs the fact that as far as killer viruses go, this one is a pussy, if you're not 10 years away from dying "naturally".
So yeah, let's continue to change everyone's life for a disease that kills less kids than falling off a table or down a flight of stairs. Maybe we should ban all kids on stairs?
The UK government has always been clear that their policy has been to ensure the NHS can cope. That's it. know many NHS workers and it barely coped. It's fair to say that in some areas, it didn't.
Whether or not all the disruption to humanity was worth it, only time will tell. What I do know is that the human race is incredibly resilient and will bounce back strong, hard and with gusto. What I also know is that many thousands of people were also taken before their time. It may be that before their time may only be a few years, but it's still not right.
I fully respect peoples opinions like yours above, and even the lockdown skeptics media group in the UK. Democracy doesn't really exist without people debating other sides.
But I will add this has left a physical & emotional scar across the UK (and I suspect the US, Europe etc) that those that aren't here can't fully comprehend.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@crucial ok. I thought it was a visual representation of the incredibly low fatality rate of those who contract covid and then die. Yes they added comments about the incredibly high average age of death.
Basically the message was to question why all the measures and sacrifices of the populace for a virus that kills a specific and tiny range of people - compared to who gets it and doesn't die.
I think that is different from what you're talking about which is all about becoming infected by this virus that kills less people than poor nutrition.
I think you're confusing man made and socially engineered disruptions to life vs the fact that as far as killer viruses go, this one is a pussy, if you're not 10 years away from dying "naturally".
So yeah, let's continue to change everyone's life for a disease that kills less kids than falling off a table or down a flight of stairs. Maybe we should ban all kids on stairs?
The UK government has always been clear that their policy has been to ensure the NHS can cope. That's it. know many NHS workers and it barely coped. It's fair to say that in some areas, it didn't.
Whether or not all the disruption to humanity was worth it, only time will tell. What I do know is that the human race is incredibly resilient and will bounce back strong, hard and with gusto. What I also know is that many thousands of people were also taken before their time. It may be that before their time may only be a few years, but it's still not right.
I fully respect peoples opinions like yours above, and even the lockdown skeptics media group in the UK. Democracy doesn't really exist without people debating other sides.
But I will add this has left a physical & emotional scar across the UK (and I suspect the US, Europe etc) that those that aren't here can't fully comprehend.
It is very easy for people in NZ and Australia to dismiss the impact of the disease, considering our low fatality numbers. Talk to anyone in the medical profession and they were all very scared of the power of this virus. Even now they have not returned to anything resembling a normal footing
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@canefan yep. This is the international thread and I watch many people so much more adversely affected by human decisions and reasons (wielded with a stick) than biological reasons.
Too much censorship, too much fear mongering via the media, too many illogical authoritarian rules, too little looking at different strategies - Taiwan, South Korea, Florida, Texas and Sweden to name a few data points never addressed in the media.
The quickest path to beating covid and regaining a rational life is for the media to find another hot topic. Watch for climate change to be the next lucrative feature in the media, supplanting others before it such as WMD, Trump, Russian electoral influence.
The feature of this pandemic is not the virus, but the response of those in charge and the upheaval of life for the 97%
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@crucial ok. I thought it was a visual representation of the incredibly low fatality rate of those who contract covid and then die. Yes they added comments about the incredibly high average age of death.
Basically the message was to question why all the measures and sacrifices of the populace for a virus that kills a specific and tiny range of people - compared to who gets it and doesn't die.
I think that is different from what you're talking about which is all about becoming infected by this virus that kills less people than poor nutrition.
I think you're confusing man made and socially engineered disruptions to life vs the fact that as far as killer viruses go, this one is a pussy, if you're not 10 years away from dying "naturally".
So yeah, let's continue to change everyone's life for a disease that kills less kids than falling off a table or down a flight of stairs. Maybe we should ban all kids on stairs?
The UK government has always been clear that their policy has been to ensure the NHS can cope. That's it. know many NHS workers and it barely coped. It's fair to say that in some areas, it didn't.
Whether or not all the disruption to humanity was worth it, only time will tell. What I do know is that the human race is incredibly resilient and will bounce back strong, hard and with gusto. What I also know is that many thousands of people were also taken before their time. It may be that before their time may only be a few years, but it's still not right.
I fully respect peoples opinions like yours above, and even the lockdown skeptics media group in the UK. Democracy doesn't really exist without people debating other sides.
But I will add this has left a physical & emotional scar across the UK (and I suspect the US, Europe etc) that those that aren't here can't fully comprehend.
Thank you mate. I know how easy it is to deride my contributions but in essence is all I'm asking for is answers to some questions that have been either heavily censored or brushed off as wacky conspiracies.
Im ok to be labelled as dumb but I'm just asking questions of topics not properly discussed and teased out to satisfaction. -
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@crucial ok. I thought it was a visual representation of the incredibly low fatality rate of those who contract covid and then die. Yes they added comments about the incredibly high average age of death.
Basically the message was to question why all the measures and sacrifices of the populace for a virus that kills a specific and tiny range of people - compared to who gets it and doesn't die.
I think that is different from what you're talking about which is all about becoming infected by this virus that kills less people than poor nutrition.
I think you're confusing man made and socially engineered disruptions to life vs the fact that as far as killer viruses go, this one is a pussy, if you're not 10 years away from dying "naturally".
So yeah, let's continue to change everyone's life for a disease that kills less kids than falling off a table or down a flight of stairs. Maybe we should ban all kids on stairs?
The UK government has always been clear that their policy has been to ensure the NHS can cope. That's it. know many NHS workers and it barely coped. It's fair to say that in some areas, it didn't.
Whether or not all the disruption to humanity was worth it, only time will tell. What I do know is that the human race is incredibly resilient and will bounce back strong, hard and with gusto. What I also know is that many thousands of people were also taken before their time. It may be that before their time may only be a few years, but it's still not right.
I fully respect peoples opinions like yours above, and even the lockdown skeptics media group in the UK. Democracy doesn't really exist without people debating other sides.
But I will add this has left a physical & emotional scar across the UK (and I suspect the US, Europe etc) that those that aren't here can't fully comprehend.
Big question marks over this statement mate.
Why the concern now? Why the specifics of this population cohort? How does this new found concern for life and premature death stack up with: government sanctioned wars and bombings, car accidents, alcohol deaths, gang violence, murders, fast food, smoking, treatment of Uighurs, Mexican cartel deaths, prescription opiod deaths, tuberculosis etc.
Are we justified in shutting down the world to prevent these premature deaths? -
@siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
too little looking at different strategies - Taiwan, South Korea, Florida, Texas and Sweden to name a few data points never addressed in the media.
There have been numerous articles here about the success of Taiwan and to a lesser extent South Korea. Even more about the different route taken by Sweden. Firstly because it was promising so much then because it delivered so little.
There has been plenty about the different strategies adopted by various states in the USA. Don't see that Texas or Florida have been particularly successful. There death rates are pretty much the country average and worse than the likes of California. Point of fact Florida's (in)actions are largely blamed for the initial spread of the virus. Economically those two states seem to have fared OK better than a few worse than some - nothing significant.
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Had the Covid outbreak occurred before the advent of the Internet and smartphones I have no doubt the international breadth of extreme response would have been massively less.
It is by no means clear that Covid is any worse than the Hong Kong flu of 1968. Which was seen off without wide ranging lockdowns.
The mind boggles to think of the reaction had we been hit with something as nasty as the Spanish flu!
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Had the Covid outbreak occurred before the advent of the Internet and smartphones I have no doubt the international breadth of extreme response would have been massively less.
It is by no means clear that Covid is any worse than the Hong Kong flu of 1968. Which was seen off without wide ranging lockdowns.
The mind boggles to think of the reaction had we been hit with something as nasty as the Spanish flu!
Big difference in the global mobility between now and even 1968, let alone 1919.