The Future of Protein?
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Always has been and always will be a human problem not an animal problem.
There are too many of us on the planet.
And there’s too much food waste.
That’s where all these Climate Change discussions should begin and end.
Otherwise we’re just shuffling the deck.
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I have been a vegetarian for over 20 years and would welcome less animals being slaughtered and plant protein being used instead. I have never really thought about the environmental angle and I suppose that is important (because that actually might hurt humans so people are now worried - ha ha), I just feel sad when I see animals killed (and growing up on a farm, I saw a lot of that).
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@chimoaus I raised this very issue with my wife. She wouldn't contemplate the idea of eating lab meat. In fact she dismissed the concept with astonishing speed. I shouldn't be surprised given she grew up on a cattle farm.
We both agree that free range is an important consideration, happy to pay more to support it and thankfully change is coming in the poultry industry in Australia.
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@mikethesnow said in The Future of Protein?:
Always has been and always will be a human problem not an animal problem.
There are too many of us on the planet.
And there’s too much food waste.
That’s where all these Climate Change discussions should begin and end.
Otherwise we’re just shuffling the deck.
Agree about humans but we aren't going anywhere, we raise over 50 billion chickens each year for consumption and there are over 20 billion farm animals waiting to be slaughtered now. We have to grow crops to feed these animals, they release emissions, take up lots of space etc.
If that protein could be grown with significantly less resources, land and impacts it has to make a difference, that is what I'm getting at.
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@antipodean It is an interesting debate and I am curious about people's beliefs and opinions on the matter.
Do you happen to know why she is so against it as I am sure many will share her thoughts?
I think once people are given a choice, much like renewable energy, electric cars etc many will choose the more environmentally friendly option.
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@chimoaus said in The Future of Protein?:
@mikethesnow said in The Future of Protein?:
Always has been and always will be a human problem not an animal problem.
There are too many of us on the planet.
And there’s too much food waste.
That’s where all these Climate Change discussions should begin and end.
Otherwise we’re just shuffling the deck.
Agree about humans but we aren't going anywhere, we raise over 50 billion chickens each year for consumption and there are over 20 billion farm animals waiting to be slaughtered now. We have to grow crops to feed these animals, they release emissions, take up lots of space etc.
If that protein could be grown with significantly less resources, land and impacts it has to make a difference, that is what I'm getting at.
Coming from a position of no research, is there any publications on resource usage of animal protein vs vegetarian? How much land, does it take, water usage etc to make 100g of protein? How how nutritionally beneficial is this 100g vs that of animal?
Genuinely curious, as the I think the avocado numbers are not published enough.
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Chicken is an efficient and cheap source of protein (meat or eggs). Conversion of dry feed into meat is pretty remarkable.
Take broiler chickens: genetics companies have bred them to grow so fast and frugally that they now need just 2.4lbs of feed to produce a pound of usable meat. (Though the feed is dry, while the meat is 66% water.) That feed is mainly corn and soy, which currently cost just 6 cents/lb and 14 cents/lb respectively. The only other major cost is labor and infrastructure, but factory farmers have gotten those costs down to just 10 cents/lb of bird weight.
Soy is cheap too. Other plant proteins can be surprisingly expensive.
Novel proteins are much pricier. Mung bean protein starts at $2/lb on Alibaba, potato protein starts at $3/lb, fava bean protein at $4/lb, chickpea protein at $5/lb, and lentil protein at $10/lb. Slightly less novel pea protein is cheaper, starting at $1/lb, though the non-GMO and organic varieties preferred by many startups are pricier. And most of these are already large-scale crops, so it may be hard to bring prices down a lot further.
A lot of inputs can be required to make a palatable meat substitute, which results in high prices.
All prices from 2020.
Sources:
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@chimoaus said in The Future of Protein?:
@antipodean It is an interesting debate and I am curious about people's beliefs and opinions on the matter.
Do you happen to know why she is so against it as I am sure many will share her thoughts?
She said it was "weird". Then when pressed asked how you could be know what cut it was modelled on, i.e. how you weren't getting a turdburger made from lips and arseholes, or a rolled roast wasn't a dick, etc.
I think once people are given a choice, much like renewable energy, electric cars etc many will choose the more environmentally friendly option.
She did question how building the infrastructure to make lab meat on an industrial scale could be less environmentally damaging.
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"Lab grown meat" aka, growing animal cells in bioreactors for meat replicas or substitutes will likely never be possible for economic, and practicality reasons. A lot of scams out there in that area. I think it's a genuinely stupid idea and a terrible waste of resources.
There's a (very optimistic to me) analysis in the journal Biotechnology & Bioengineering. Still looking at very high costs, and that is with things going well.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bit.27848
Commentary here on practicalities and economics that is worth reading:
Lab-grown meat was supposed to be inevitable. Here's why it isn't.
Splashy headlines aside, new research suggests the industry is on a billion-dollar crash course with reality.
Single cell protein from engineered yeast is much more interesting to me.
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@mariner4life said in The Future of Protein?:
if they take away my ability to purchase animals, then i will eat people
That's very environmentally responsible, the world's pop is too big.
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@tim Yeah Chicken appears to be the most efficient live animal meat. I wonder if the price of feed is driven down by subsidies etc. I have no doubt the price of plant based protein will continue to drop as demand increases and more investment is made. It has to be the same price or cheaper before lots of people change their buying habits.
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@kirwan said in The Future of Protein?:
That is super far off, particularly at scale. Even it did take off, it will be direct competition with the healthy organic market.
So will always be a market for real meat IMO.
As far as alternative protein sources go, I’d bet on bugs beating lab grown meat. Lots of progress being made on that front too.
My immediate reaction to the thread title.
An 'Infinite Monkey Cage' episode on this was along the lines of insects being very similar to crustaceans.
I'll see if I can find it.
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@taniwharugby said in The Future of Protein?:
and then what happens to sheep/cows/chickens etc if not farmed? Extinct, or need to be kept on a big open grass expanse to roam free?
there is currently nearly 26 billion chickens in the world. I think we can survive without quite a few of those
and 1 billion cows https://www.statista.com/statistics/263979/global-cattle-population-since-1990/
Poultry: number of chickens worldwide 2023| Statista
How many chickens are in the world? The number of chickens worldwide has more than doubled since 1990.
Considering we eviscerated so many mammals etc for cows chickens etc, I suggest we have too many..
Humans just 0.01% of all life but have destroyed 83% of wild mammals – study
Groundbreaking assessment of all life on Earth reveals humanity’s surprisingly tiny part in it as well as our disproportionate impact
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@mariner4life said in The Future of Protein?:
if they take away my ability to purchase animals, then i will eat people
so vegetarians should be safe, as they will have a far less meaty taste..
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@kirwan said in The Future of Protein?:
As far as alternative protein sources go, I’d bet on bugs beating lab grown meat. Lots of progress being made on that front too.
Thai's love eating bugs. And pay good money (by Thai stds) for them. I thought of trying but gave it a miss
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@winger said in The Future of Protein?:
@kirwan said in The Future of Protein?:
As far as alternative protein sources go, I’d bet on bugs beating lab grown meat. Lots of progress being made on that front too.
Thai's love eating bugs. And pay good money (by Thai stds) for them. I thought of trying but gave it a miss
Yeah, will have to be presented slightly differently to western eaters.
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@chimoaus soy would have to be one of the most popular and subsidized crops in the world. And a huge amount of deforestation has gone on to allow that. Now often that's used for feeding agriculture at high intensive feeding farms.
I would definitely avoid a world based on soy protein if I could
Also monculture industrial horticulture is very very harsh on soils and requires a alot of water usually through irrigation so the trade off isn't so amazing.
Basically less people allows for low intensive farming like nzs beef and sheep farms which by world standards are as low cost to the environment as food can be.
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@muddyriver said in The Future of Protein?:
Basically less people
so back to the cannibalism part mentioned at the start
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@taniwharugby unvaccinated or "organic" humans top of list, will be mandated shortly.
