How many Crusaders in your AB 23?
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@mariner4life said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@nzzp said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@mariner4life said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
i am astounded how many people are happy to keep a limited player prone to red card offences like S Barrett in the 23.
Keeping him there actively stunts the development of players who may have a higher ceiling
Experience counts.
Maybe Josh Lord steps up, maybe he doesn't. It's a risk. You know what you get with ScoBa.
That said, I reckon the end of year may be a different discussion
does it though? does playing lots of ordinary tests make you a better player?
take the fucking risk.
I'm not against that, but I can see the argument for picking him. Who's showing themselves to be more physical at this stage?
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@mariner4life As always, the questions go to who is available?
Senior locks are Whitelock and Retallick. Whitelock is playing pretty well, but didn't look great against Ireland or France. Retallick is there purely on reputation, hasn't done anything this year, and needs a hell of a Super Rugby playoff series, or test series against Ireland.
Tupou Vaa'i is OK-ish. Hasn't shown much so far to suggest a high ceiling.
Tuipulotu has disappointed at test level, and isn't capable of playing a more mobile role like Retallick. (Note to Foster: put him in the middle of the field and get him to carry, tackle, and hit rucks.)
Lord looks to have real ability and a bit extra in contact. Still very young.
Barrett is a bit of an inbetweener at lock, has discipline issues, and is prone to going off his feet at the ruck. Has performed consistently a little better than the other options over the last 18 months though.
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@mariner4life said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
i am astounded how many people are happy to keep a limited player prone to red card offences like S Barrett in the 23.
Keeping him there actively stunts the development of players who may have a higher ceiling
His surname is Barrett. Enough said.
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@MN5 said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@mariner4life said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
i am astounded how many people are happy to keep a limited player prone to red card offences like S Barrett in the 23.
Keeping him there actively stunts the development of players who may have a higher ceiling
His surname is Barrett. Enough said.
I'll have you know we the blues signed the 4th Barrett brother Kane, and managed to wreck him. Retired injured I believe, despite the name.
Edit: Kevin for father of the decade
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Barrett is the inform lock at the moment (esp. at shutting down the opposition's clean ball at lineout) and plays the power game more effectively than anyone else. He does need to stay on the field however.....
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In 2019, this team wasn't good enough to get past England:
The matchday 23 was as follows (marked out those
unavailable
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Joe Moody (44)
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Codie Taylor (49)
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Nepo Laulala (24)
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Brodie Retallick (79)
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Samuel Whitelock (116)
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Scott Barrett (34)
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Ardie Savea (43)
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Kieran Read - captain(125) -
Aaron Smith (90)
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Richie Mo’unga (15)
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George Bridge (8)
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Anton Lienert-Brown (41)
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Jack Goodhue (12)
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Sevu Reece (6)
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Beauden Barrett (81)
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Dane Coles (67)
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Ofa Tuungafasi (34)
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Angus Ta'avao (12)
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Patrick Tuipulotu (28)
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Sam Cane (66)
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T J Perenara (63)
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Sonny Bill Williams(56) -
Jordie Barrett (15)
Almost all of them are still available, but how many of these players are the answer?
I think if we rely on 'experience' (that failed last time), we are actively looking to leave the next WC at the Quarters, and not because of bad refereeing, but simply because we will have a bunch of experienced heads who aren't as good as they were, and even then they weren't good enough.
before people lose their shit, I'm not suggesting we don't use some of these guys, but our tight five (and reserves) are still essentially the same. We have to refresh, now.
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@gt12 while I think the main criticism was SB at 6 and no Cane, IMO Brodie was so far off his game it hugely exaggerated out lack of physicality too...
No point re-hashing that game now though
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@taniwharugby that untimely injury against the boks was disastrous for us. He came back under cooked and hasn't stepped up since his sabbatical
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Assuming Cane and Savea are locked into the starting line up, we're going to need to be able to create quick ruck ball to make the most of Savea.
1 Hodgman
2 Taukei'aho
3 Tu'ungafasi
4 S Barrett
5 Retallick/Whitelock
6 A Ioane
7 Cane
8 Savea9 Smith
10 B Barrett
11 Clarke
12 ?
13 R Ioane
14 Jordan
15 J Barrett16 Taylor (Coles must be too old for the WC now)
17 Moody
18 Would like to see Newell get a go, otherwise toss a coin for Laulala/Lomax
19 ?
20 Papalii
21 Christie (Weber was good last year, off his game this year)
22 Mo'unga
23 ?It would be great if Tupaea could improve his defence. A lot.
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@gt12 I just shake my head at that team. SBarrett at 6, Cane on the bench, Mo'unga starting, Bridge on the wing. Just so stupid.
On experience, a very big fuckup which doesn't get talked about much in that WC is leaving Ben Smith out of the 23 and instead putting Mo'unga at 10 and Beauden at 15 attempting to implement that "duel playmaker" strategy. Putting an absolute rookie at 10 was a huge gamble which backfired spectacularly. If we wanted experience in the most important positions in the backline we had to have Beauden at 10 and Ben Smith at 15.
And it's not like Ben Smith was out of form either, he carved up the 3rd/4th play off as well just to ram home how stupid it was to leave him out.
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@Chester-Draws Picking a captain who isn't the best player available in their position is a luxury the All Blacks can't afford given the competitive nature of contemporary test Rugby and the likely competitive nature of this series. A captain has to earn their place same as anyone else. Right now, Papalii is clearly the best NZ 7. Leadership in Rugby is about a leadership group rather than one individual these days anyway.
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As a few others have said, I would be interested to see how Papalii goes at 6 in combination with Cane. He has the size to play there, and wouldn't really have to adjust his game from what he does now.
The fact is that if Papalii is the bench loose forward he would probably come on to play 6 anyway. So why not start him there? Savea is regularly used as a lineout option so I don't believe that would be an issue.
The key remains selecting the correct tight five to allow the loose forwards, and backs to function.
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@No-Quarter said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@gt12 I just shake my head at that team. SBarrett at 6, Cane on the bench, Mo'unga starting, Bridge on the wing. Just so stupid.
Mo'unga had been outstanding against Ireland (QF). Dropping him would have raised eyebrows.
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@sparky said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Chester-Draws Picking a captain who isn't the best player available in their position is a luxury the All Blacks can't afford given the competitive nature of contemporary test Rugby and the likely competitive nature of this series. A captain has to earn their place same as anyone else. Right now, Papalii is clearly the best NZ 7. Leadership in Rugby is about a leadership group rather than one individual these days anyway.
Indeed. This is not 2000 and Cane is NOT Todd Blackadder.
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@sparky said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Chester-Draws Picking a captain who isn't the best player available in their position is a luxury the All Blacks can't afford given the competitive nature of contemporary test Rugby and the likely competitive nature of this series. A captain has to earn their place same as anyone else. Right now, Papalii is clearly the best NZ 7. Leadership in Rugby is about a leadership group rather than one individual these days anyway.
Let's not go overboard with Papali'i, he had an awesome game but he hasn't been that good all year. Add to that Cane has been great in his last few games. We'll need to see how they both go during the combined comp before declaring Papali'i number 1.
