Euthanasia yes or no

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="605555" data-time="1471162266">
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My mother used to be a nurse and is against it, her thinking is that selfish relatives might think that granny is a hassle to have living with them and she's left them money in the will so they'll pressure her into ending things. I doubt that, i'm sure as a society we can put sort robust checks in place to ensure that doesn't happen.
 
Whats your take on it?
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My mum was an RN for 40+ years and is all in favour of it. To the point where I suspect the old bird has probably seen it go down a couple of times, particularly during her time in aged care.
 
In fact, she's down as DNR if she gets into an appropriate state.
 
In any case, I think the right protocols have to be in place - psych assessments, physical suitability, prior instructions, numerous medical evaluations.
 
I don't see why not.

Rembrandt

Yep all for it. Then again thats easy to say until someone you care for wants it

Crazy Horse

We will put the dog down to keep it from suffering but will often do everything in our power to keep people alive even after all dignity and will to live is gone. 
The ones that worry me are the ones who may opt for death because they no longer what to be a burden or an inconvenience. I am thinking of the same people who remain on the kitchen floor with a broken arm and not asking for help because they didn't want a fuss made. Interviews may not identify these people because they will know the right things to say. 
I am a fence sitter on this one.

gollum

All in favour of it. Throw in some basic checks, eg 2 doctors sign off on it purely from a medical & competency point of view & its all good.
 
Had a few family members die of cancer & thats 1 month of good stuff - still doing OK, saying goodbye to everyone, chatting through stuff that should have been sorted, then a month of pain & zero dignity & often so much drugs that they didn't know who was there or what they were saying. All concerned could have done with skipping that last month.
 
Same with shit like dementia, you get diagnosed with that you should be able to set up a sort of will that lets them cap you when you've totally lost it.

NTA

That's the thing I reckon: when they're no longer the person they were through the intervention of drugs, or the serious loss of faculty.

Godder

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My mum was an RN for 40+ years and is all in favour of it. To the point where I suspect the old bird has probably seen it go down a couple of times, particularly during her time in aged care.
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I've heard a few stories - it was amazing how accurate doctors were at predicting imminent death once the family had arrived from all ends of the earth...

booboo

Put me down as a yes with the appropriate checks and balances. What those checks and balances may be probably needs some further diiscussion.

Catogrande

The greater good would suggest that euthanasia is a good idea. The amount of people that could have their pain and misery alleviated would be significant but weighed against this is the old adage that human life is sacred (yes, up until the point your Government asks you to go to war and kill or die for your country). Whatever checks and balances that could be put in it is inevitable that there will be abuses. The question is can we live with the abuses for the common good? I'm with the Crazy Nag, sitting on the fence.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="605632" data-time="1471262305">
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Put me down as a yes with the appropriate checks and balances. What those checks and balances may be probably needs some further diiscussion.
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deliberate?
 
Is a tough one, as above, often the person may not be in a state to give consent, but then, that is part of the problem, and too many people don't have a will, let alone instructions about what should happen to them in the event of needing life support.

barbarian

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Had a few family members die of cancer & thats 1 month of good stuff - still doing OK, saying goodbye to everyone, chatting through stuff that should have been sorted, then a month of pain & zero dignity & often so much drugs that they didn't know who was there or what they were saying. All concerned could have done with skipping that last month.
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Hindsight is a marvellous thing, here, and it's what makes it such a tough debate (not having a go at you at all).
 
After the one month, you think the family member might be OK, or even getting better. They are unwilling to 'pull the plug' at this point because they are healthy and could have months or years left. But then things get worse quickly, and either it's too late (they are not of sound mind) or you think they might come out of it. It's a fucking HUGE decision at any point to say 'yep, let's end it now'.
 
99% of cases I've heard of successful euthanasia (if you can call it that) is folks who were so fucking determined to do it, it almost defined them. And they did it before they began to go downhill.
 
FWIW I think it should be available, but I'm not sure how that looks in reality. A lot of people say they would do it, but when it comes to it it's such a massive call that not many actually do. Just having the option there would be a real comfort to a lot of people IMO.
 
The bigger conversation for mine is around managing death better than we do now, investment in palliative care and educating people (and doctors) about making the call to stop treatment and face their death. All the studies show that people who embrace a fatal diagnosis earlier and stop treatment live better and longer lives than those who cling on and go through round after round of chemo etc.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="barbarian" data-cid="605694" data-time="1471303811">
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The bigger conversation for mine is around managing death better than we do now, investment in palliative care and educating people (and doctors) about making the call to stop treatment and face their death. All the studies show that people who embrace a fatal diagnosis earlier and stop treatment live better and longer lives than those who cling on and go through round after round of chemo etc.
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I think Crowe is a case in point there. Once he stopped treatment and and just went about enjoying the time he had left he seemed much more relaxed and "at peace".

jegga

Good post Barbarian , my father had emphysema which is a long drawn out way to go. My step mum found out he was having the odd smoke even though he'd told her he quit and she marched him down to the doctor expecting a lecture and instead he told her that my dad was on countdown and if he wanted to have a beer or a smoke now and then it was fine by him .i thought was a pretty honest way of looking at things.

NTA

I think the last century has seen a slowly degradation in the way in which human society handles death.
 
A hundred years ago people would get death portraits. Now they;re getting their dogs cloned because they love them so much. FFS!
 
When mortality rates were higher, and life expectancy lower, I think the realities of it didn't give people time to fuck around.
 
Palliative and aged care are also big business, and only getting bigger.

antipodean

I blame climate change. Much harder to put granny on an ice floe these days....
 
It's our quest for immortality. I don't want to live forever if it means declining quality of life, hence why it's important to advise people about your wishes. Advanced care plans dictate with legal enforcement in Australia regarding the refusal or withdrawal of medical treatment. It doesn't even have to be a current illness for most jurisdictions, unlike Victoria.

Kirwan

The most fundamental human right is the right to decide when to die. Euthanasia happens now, we just expose the people that help people end their suffering to criminal action.

mariner4life

It's nearly 2022, shouldn't we be eating old people by now?

Crazy Horse

Much of the topic has been about Euthanasia for the terminally ill - what about those that aren't terminally ill but the desire to live has gone? 
 
Over the years I have been first response and subsequently investigated too many suicides to count. Not all of them stay in my thoughts but some do. I don't know why. 
 
A couple of years ago I attended an attempted suicide where a guy tried killing himself in a brutal way. His motivation? Ringing in his ears that was so severe he had not slept for months. There was no cure for him. The problem wasn't terminal but it was never going to go away and the guy was slowly being driven 'crazy' by, the constant noise and lack of sleep. He was patched up but his suicide attempt left him scarred and in more physical pain. He was also given psychiatric help. Six months later he killed himself in a way that must have hurt like hell. I cannot fathom ever being able to have the nerve to do it that way myself. If Euthanasia was an option I don't know if he would have taken it, but it certainly would have given him a chance to die with dignity and without pain. His family wouldn't have found him like they did either.
 
Then there are the examples of old people that kill themselves. I have seen many examples of the elderly who have just had enough of being alive. They had no known mental health issues. It seemed like they decided they had lived long enough and wanted to move on. It is amazing how often you talk to family, friends, neighbours and you hear how the deceased had seemed so happy in the days leading up to their suicide. I recall one neighbour of an old fella who gassed himself in a car saying the deceased had visited him the day before and had seemed really chirpy and relaxed. Like a burden had been lifted. They shared a beer and the deceased had thanked him for his friendship and all for he had done over the years. Surely these people deserve to die with dignity too.
 
I could go on. What about the people who have mental health issues? The ones that are trapped inside a mental hell and see no way to escape it? Do they deserve the right to die with dignity? 
 
And then there are the people that find those who have committed suicide. The child that finds dad swinging from the rafters or the train driver who ran over the old lady on the train tracks. These people suffer too. Do these people have a right not to find a suicide victim?
 
Euthanasia, or state sponsored suicide, could not only help the terminally ill, it could help other people too. I guess the problem is, if we let the terminally ill end their life on their own terms, what about giving everyone else that right? Where does it end?

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crazy Horse" data-cid="605763" data-time="1471318222">
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Euthanasia, or state sponsored suicide, could not only help the terminally ill, it could help other people too. I guess the problem is, if we let the terminally ill end their life on their own terms, what about giving everyone else that right? Where does it end?
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For adults, I'd say they should be able to make application, spend time with a psychologist and go on their merry way. After all, if someone really wants to kill themselves, you're not going to stop them.

Mokey

I'm for it, in a controlled environment with the checks and balances.
 
I've sat with a few dying relatives, and it was horrific. Can't eat, can't sleep, doped up on morphine that doesn't even take the edge off the agony, slowly drowning to death because their lungs can't cope anymore. I wanted to punch certain other people in the face - everyone had said goodbye, but still they made these poor people suffer with poking and prodding and more drugs, not willing to let them go to peace.
 
That is neither decent nor humane. It's fucking selfish cruelty. And I hated them for it.

gollum

It could actually be a strong positive from a mental health point of view, if its made open to anyone who goes through the process for a lot of non medically ill people the process itself could get them the help they need to no longer want to die.
 
IE if you are suicidal & hiding it & can end your life this way, you just need to have 5 chats with a shrink. For many the 5 chats with the shrink may well open up treatment or options that you didn't know you had.
 
In most cases where people top themselves or attempt it, people around them had no idea they were that down & the people themselves haven't explored their options because they've been too depressed.

The Silver Fern

Euthanasia yes or no