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@booboo I think I was on that boat until the Bataclan attack. That massively resonated with me as it was a band I liked and I frequently used to shoot off to european destinations for a weekend to watch bands. My best mates work colleague was there and it messed him up terribly. My mate watched the westminster attacks live on cctv as he works in tfl on traffic orders and saw some horrific things, its made it all that much more real. I'm now at the point where I think ignoring the problem is just irresponsible.
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Even if Wahabbi Islam is solely responsible, the problem is unresolvable by slaughter - it's far too widespread, and every dead radical is replaced by another one from a near infinite supply.
The Qu'ran has issues, but so do the Old Testament and the Talmud. The real issue is the interpretation and message of the various associated churches, not the founding documents themselves. Neither mainstream Judaism or Christianity condones or supports murder, terrorism or wars, but they have in the past, and have moved away from that. Mainstream Islam has also moved away from that - it's the handful of really unpleasant sects that is the problem, not Islam as a whole.
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@Godder said in Another attack in London:
Even if Wahabbi Islam is solely responsible, the problem is unresolvable by slaughter - it's far too widespread, and every dead radical is replaced by another one from a near infinite supply.
The Qu'ran has issues, but so do the Old Testament and the Talmud. The real issue is the interpretation and message of the various associated churches, not the founding documents themselves. Neither mainstream Judaism or Christianity condones or supports murder, terrorism or wars, but they have in the past, and have moved away from that. Mainstream Islam has also moved away from that - it's the handful of really unpleasant sects that is the problem, not Islam as a whole.
Well it only took 3 pages for Christianity to somehow get lumped in with the ideology directly responsible for this attrocity.
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@Hooroo said in Another attack in London:
Oh Cool! Another thread discussing Islam.
I wonder how this is going to go.....
How on earth can you discuss an Islamic terror attack without discussing Islam?
I disagree that all threads on Islam end in who can shout the loudest. We've had some cracking debates in the past year with plenty of middle ground found between posters. It's a hugely important topic, and as @Kirwan says its only a matter of time before we see something similar in NZ, you'd have to bury your head in the sand to think otherwise.
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@Godder said in Another attack in London:
Even if Wahabbi Islam is solely responsible, the problem is unresolvable by slaughter - it's far too widespread, and every dead radical is replaced by another one from a near infinite supply.
What do you mean by slaughter?
The best way to stop terror attacks in the west is to actively stop Wahhabi Islam from spreading. That comes in the form of shutting down Mosques preaching this shit, and tightening up on immigration big time. A lot of people have this romantic idea that as soon as someone steps into a western country they "become western" and embrace western democracy, law and culture immediately. That just is not how humans behave - if you have been raised one way then it is very difficult to change in your adult life.
I'm not calling for a complete shutdown of immigration, but what you have in Europe is mass immigration of people from a vastly different culture who are at high risk of becoming radicalised, and those countries cannot cope. They just had to shut down a massive music festival in Germany due to security concerns - it's an absolute mess.
European leaders need to put their politcal agendas aside, admit they got it wrong and start actually doing something to fix what is happening, as their "thoughts" will be very little comfort to the victims of these attacks.
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@No-Quarter said in Another attack in London:
@Godder said in Another attack in London:
Even if Wahabbi Islam is solely responsible, the problem is unresolvable by slaughter - it's far too widespread, and every dead radical is replaced by another one from a near infinite supply.
What do you mean by slaughter?
The best way to stop terror attacks in the west is to actively stop Wahhabi Islam from spreading. That comes in the form of shutting down Mosques preaching this shit, and tightening up on immigration big time. A lot of people have this romantic idea that as soon as someone steps into a western country they "become western" and embrace western democracy, law and culture immediately. That just is not how humans behave - if you have been raised one way then it is very difficult to change in your adult life.
I'm not calling for a complete shutdown of immigration, but what you have in Europe is mass immigration of people from a vastly different culture who are at high risk of becoming radicalised, and those countries cannot cope. They just had to shut down a massive music festival in Germany due to security concerns - it's an absolute mess.
European leaders need to put their politcal agendas aside, admit they got it wrong and start actually doing something to fix what is happening, as their "thoughts" will be very little comfort to the victims of these attacks.
Imagine if European leaders got as angry about this as they did about Trump pulling out of the Paris accords.
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@Frank said in Another attack in London:
Terror timeline:
Reports of attack
Don't jump to conclusions
Might be terrorism
Oh, it is
Praise police
Light candles, recite poems
RepeatDon't forget to replace your Facebook profile pic with whatever emotional image is flying round the interweb at the time. I'm sure terrorists view that as a massive deterrant.
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@No-Quarter I suspect @Hooroo point is, the religious stuff (and some other stuff too) is infecting a number of threads.
Yes you are right, the issues seem to go hand in hand, but still doesnt mean the same things need to be trotted out in in every thread.
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@taniwharugby said in Another attack in London:
@No-Quarter I suspect @Hooroo point is, the religious stuff (and some other stuff too) is infecting a number of threads.
Yes you are right, the issues seem to go hand in hand, but still doesnt mean the same things need to be trotted out in in every thread.
Or maybe they do. Because silence is the ally of the status quo.... and the status quo fucking sucks.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback yeah cos a small number of people on TSF discussing these issues over and over will solve the worlds problems....
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@taniwharugby said in Another attack in London:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback yeah cos a small number of people on TSF discussing these issues over and over will solve the worlds problems....
Exactly. We're like an echo chamber, its only us in here!
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@taniwharugby said in Another attack in London:
@No-Quarter I suspect @Hooroo point is, the religious stuff (and some other stuff too) is infecting a number of threads.
Yes you are right, the issues seem to go hand in hand, but still doesnt mean the same things need to be trotted out in in every thread.
Islam is at the heart of this issue. I find it a bit frustrating that people are willing to discuss a terror attack but completely unwilling to debate and educate themselves on what caused it.
The best thing anyone can do to help prevent this occuring is to actually educate themselves on Islam. The more people that genuinely understand what is happening, the sooner we will get to the best answer. What I see everywhere at the moment is people with 0 understanding of Islamic terrorism pushing their personal opinions, mainly based on their political agenda, and we don't get anywhere. It is frustrating, and I am happy to keep having this debate if it means we get more people opening their eyes to what is happening.
I think the Fern is a fantastic example of the kind of meaningful debates you can have when freedom of speech and expression are maintained and respected by most people on here.
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@taniwharugby said in Another attack in London:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback yeah cos a small number of people on TSF discussing these issues over and over will solve the worlds problems....
It doesn't have to be that way. By discussing it we can have our views tested and challenged. We can challenge others who have alternate views. Opinions can change. If enough people feel strongly about an issue a party will take that on and can thereby influence an outcome based on that issue. I've had a number of private discussions over the last few weeks which have covered elements discussed on these forums and I've found people feeling the same but thinking they were on their own as speaking out immediately had them branded a racist. By making it ok to discuss, to openly engage people in real life about these issues is going to be far move successful in finding a resolution than simply pretending the problems don't exist.
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@Rembrandt not saying it isnt ok to discuss it.
Is the fact that there are several threads that have the same theme running through them...Islam and Trump seen to play a big role in a few of them.
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@taniwharugby Yeah, I guess that's my fault. I could have left out the original lone wolf reference. Sorry about that.
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@taniwharugby said in Another attack in London:
Is the fact that there are several threads that have the same theme running through them...Islam and Trump seen to play a big role in a few of them.
I think the Trump stuff should be kept to the US politics thread as much as possible
As for Islam it is directly related to this topic.
Several threads that touch on Islam? What are they?
- The religion , morality pc thread. That seems valid
- The US politics thread, particularly when the President was visiting the middle east discussing policy. Yup valid
- Multiple islamic terrorism threads. Once again it's clearly valid
I don't see the problem?
If you don't want to discuss it, don't post in the thread(s). If you don't want to read it don't open the thread(s)
Another attack in London