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@booboo said in The Politics Quiz!:
But interesting point above re death penalty and Tarrant.
Can anyone seriously see him get anything other than life without parole?
He's relatively young and pleaded guilty, so if he demonstrates genuine remorse and a change in views, the judge might think a 40 or 50 year non-parole period is sufficient (emphasis on might - it doesn't look likely to me).
In terms of why not just reintroduce hanging, @nzzp has the right of it - humans make mistakes, and sometimes worse (eg framing people, planting evidence etc), and access to justice is heavily based on financial ability to fund a defence, so it will mostly be poor people who get hanged and poor people who suffer miscarriages of justice.
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@nzzp yeah I guess it makes it tough for those prosecuting to decide today, we go for the death penalty, but tomorrow due to a plea we dont, despite one being clear cut, other less so...
I listened to the podcast in the darkness, where the guy was sentenced to death (and again at 5 subsequent re-trials) and yet today, Curtis Flowers is out on bail awaiting the state to determine if they try him for a 7th time after the Superem court of USA quashed his conviction, because the evidence was pretty average at best (he may be guilty, but the evidence didnt stack up from what I heard - obviously podcast was slanted for me to come to that conclusion)
I think Tarant deserves it, but if it is there, prosecuters will likely use it, and some cases the evidence isnt always sufficient to go that far IMO.
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Am still struggling with the put him away for life thing.
BTW I've moved discussion to the Mosque Shooting thread.
At what point does it become "cruel and unusual "? And is that even a a thing in NZ / Commonwealth law?
Are we punishing? Deterring? Trying to rehabilitate? Or removing a future that?
This really has me confused and conflicted.
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@booboo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Am still struggling with the put him away for life thing.
BTW I've moved discussion to the Mosque Shooting thread.
At what point does it become "cruel and unusual "? And is that even a a thing in NZ / Commonwealth law?
Are we punishing? Deterring? Trying to rehabilitate? Or removing a future that?
This really has me confused and conflicted.
I don't believe in life without parole as a sentence aka death by incarceration (or using old age as the executioner as one wag put it), but since it's an option, this is the the obvious case to use it.
Cruel and unusual punishment is barred by the Bill of Rights 1688.
National introduced life without parole with the 3 strikes - wasn't an option previously, although some people will probably never get parole even if they're technically eligible.
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do we think pleading guilty (and un-remorseful as far as i can tell) should change things, sure if someone is saying they're innocent...then lock them up and give them a chance to appeal and prove it....but if he says he did it and he's not judged to be mentally unfit....then doesn't that take the "people make mistakes" off the table?
the next guy to do something similar (god forbid) still has the chance to plead not guilty if he'd rather end up in jail
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@Kiwiwomble yeah I think I heard a 25% 'discount' due to a guilty plea, in this case, his guilt was never in question, so that aspect should be removed, it should be about keeping him locked away as long as NZ Law allows.
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@taniwharugby sorry, i should have been more clear, not consideration due to a guilty plea, the death penalty, he said he did it, filmed him self doing it....there very little chance the innocence project or similar are going to argue for his freedom....
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@Kiwiwomble said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@taniwharugby sorry, i should have been more clear, not consideration due to a guilty plea, the death penalty, he said he did it, filmed him self doing it....there very little chance the innocence project or similar are going to argue for his freedom....
The guy is irredeemable. If there was ever a poster child for special instance death sentence this is it. Won't happen, so put him in a hole forever
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Kiwiwomble said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@taniwharugby sorry, i should have been more clear, not consideration due to a guilty plea, the death penalty, he said he did it, filmed him self doing it....there very little chance the innocence project or similar are going to argue for his freedom....
The guy is irredeemable. If there was ever a poster child for special instance death sentence this is it. Won't happen, so put him in a hole forever
You don't kill 51 people and expect rehabilitation. It wasn't a mistake.
Put him in our worst of prisons.
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@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Kiwiwomble said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@taniwharugby sorry, i should have been more clear, not consideration due to a guilty plea, the death penalty, he said he did it, filmed him self doing it....there very little chance the innocence project or similar are going to argue for his freedom....
The guy is irredeemable. If there was ever a poster child for special instance death sentence this is it. Won't happen, so put him in a hole forever
You don't kill 51 people and expect rehabilitation. It wasn't a mistake.
Put him in our worst of prisons.
I don't want him in with the general population either. While the prospect of him getting the shit kicked out of him dail appeals, I don't want him having the chance to seed others with his poison
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Kiwiwomble said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@taniwharugby sorry, i should have been more clear, not consideration due to a guilty plea, the death penalty, he said he did it, filmed him self doing it....there very little chance the innocence project or similar are going to argue for his freedom....
The guy is irredeemable. If there was ever a poster child for special instance death sentence this is it. Won't happen, so put him in a hole forever
You don't kill 51 people and expect rehabilitation. It wasn't a mistake.
Put him in our worst of prisons.
I don't want him in with the general population either. While the prospect of him getting the shit kicked out of him dail appeals, I don't want him having the chance to seed others with his poison
I'm not worried about that as it's a special type to do what he did.
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@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Kiwiwomble said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@taniwharugby sorry, i should have been more clear, not consideration due to a guilty plea, the death penalty, he said he did it, filmed him self doing it....there very little chance the innocence project or similar are going to argue for his freedom....
The guy is irredeemable. If there was ever a poster child for special instance death sentence this is it. Won't happen, so put him in a hole forever
You don't kill 51 people and expect rehabilitation. It wasn't a mistake.
Put him in our worst of prisons.
I don't want him in with the general population either. While the prospect of him getting the shit kicked out of him dail appeals, I don't want him having the chance to seed others with his poison
I'm not worried about that as it's a special type to do what he did.
I expect he'll be isolated because he would be a primo target for another con out to make a name for himself
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Kiwiwomble said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@taniwharugby sorry, i should have been more clear, not consideration due to a guilty plea, the death penalty, he said he did it, filmed him self doing it....there very little chance the innocence project or similar are going to argue for his freedom....
The guy is irredeemable. If there was ever a poster child for special instance death sentence this is it. Won't happen, so put him in a hole forever
You don't kill 51 people and expect rehabilitation. It wasn't a mistake.
Put him in our worst of prisons.
I don't want him in with the general population either. While the prospect of him getting the shit kicked out of him dail appeals, I don't want him having the chance to seed others with his poison
I'm not worried about that as it's a special type to do what he did.
I expect he'll be isolated because he would be a primo target for another con out to make a name for himself
I imagine so.
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Massive respect to the victims and survivors who have faced him this week. Those that stared down the barrel of his many guns or witnesses their loved ones massacred by that piece of shit must have nerves of steel. Must be terrifying being face to face with him again.
Some of those guys looked like they were ready to tear him apart with their own hands, shame they can’t have 5 mins alone with him with no cameras.
Most seem to either take pity on him or have forgiven him. Hard to even fathom what they have and are continuing to go through. One survivor was shot 9 times, 9 fucken times and lived.
Best thing we can do is expunge his name from the records. Just refer to him as ‘that cowardly piece of shit’ etc.. he no longer has a name, an identity.Oh and we should I be billing Australia for his incarceration.
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Are we sending him to Oz once sentenced? or are they paying for his incarceration?
There is no value in rehab for this filthy animal which goes against my general feelings on aiming for rehab with as many prisoners as possible.
Even in this case I'm not a favour of the death penalty. Unsure of the vagaries of law here but I'd prefer they factored in parole after a maximum sentence so there is no chance for appeal etc. Although I'm working on an assumption that this fucker will never change and even if he attempts it his crimes are such that he's in the can for life.
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@booboo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Nines lines ... so next reply ...
So what is the difference between a true life sentence and the death sentence?
Genuine question. Not advocating for.
Hypocrisy. Punishing the premeditated taking of life by legislating the taking of life.
Christchurch Gunman in Mosque