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@Siam I suppose I should be more clear.
I think the prospects of litigation were good. But the kink in this case has been his complete refusal to discuss any form of settlement, which is normally where these things all end.
You'd be forgiven for thinking the worst case scenario was that you settled out of court (for some percentage of his contract) and he went off to Japan.
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@Siam said in The Folau Factor:
What, denying a multi millionaire the chance to play in a world cup after 4 years preparation, because of a tweet, and there's no way he was going to sue?
haha, not really relevant given recent goings on....
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@taniwharugby I guess we'll get a rough idea when this fund crosses $800,000.00. It's just crossed $500,000.00 now. From a personal point of view I had no intention of giving money as I thought others having a similar issue were much more deserving (and his wording about where the funds were going was dodgy at best) but after the gofundme shutdown I'm starting to be tempted. I'm sure if the crazies go crazy enough then I'll probably donate just to feel like I'm pissing them off. I'm still following the 'Yes' campaign from the same sex referendum on facebook the crazies there got me very close to supporting the 'No' campaign with some of their antics.
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@barbarian said in The Folau Factor:
@Siam I suppose I should be more clear.
I think the prospects of litigation were good. But the kink in this case has been his complete refusal to discuss any form of settlement, which is normally where these things all end.
You'd be forgiven for thinking the worst case scenario was that you settled out of court (for some percentage of his contract) and he went off to Japan.
There’s still a prospect of a settlement given the various steps in this legal process.
This type of Fair Work application basically forces the employer to come to the table, there were always IMO at least, going to be legal/PR games that would occur before any court date.
It’s not too different when a party to a court proceeding will background media prior to a trial.
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@taniwharugby I guess we'll get a rough idea when this fund crosses $800,000.00. It's just crossed $500,000.00 now. From a personal point of view I had no intention of giving money as I thought others having a similar issue were much more deserving (and his wording about where the funds were going was dodgy at best) but after the gofundme shutdown I'm starting to be tempted. I'm sure if the crazies go crazy enough then I'll probably donate just to feel like I'm pissing them off. I'm still following the 'Yes' campaign from the same sex referendum on facebook the crazies there got me very close to supporting the 'No' campaign with some of their antics.
It's a very difficult one. On the one hand I have zero sympathy for Ishmael. I hate fanatical God bothering twats like him almost as much as I hate SJWs. Unless he's a total idiot he also must have realised that AR had no choice but to sack him. And as mentioned previously, only the most deluded, arrogant tosser would publically proclaim that most of the people who pay his ridiculous salary are going to hell.
But on the other hand, this whole woke, corporate censorship crap has to be called out and stopped. It's particularly the case when these corporations will happily abandon those apparently vital principals when it helps their bottom line (think multiple tech companies in China and the Middle East, Nike's sweatshops, Qantas with Emirates and Brunei, or AR re-signing an unrepentent homophobe). They're as hypocritical, repugnant and greedy as the clergy back in the day. If this case results in them not being able to police what their employees may say or think during their spare time then bring it on.
So yeah, worthy cause but a pretty shit and unworthy champion.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Yep I think this quote is apt:
Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.
I'd say the LGBTTQQIAA2P+ movement is starting to resemble a penis
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Yep I think this quote is apt:
Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.
I'd say the LGBTTQQIAA2P+ movement is starting to resemble a penis
Huh? Isn't that also Pfalaue?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
greedy as the clergy back in the day.
No "back in the day" about it. Phillowe is proving you correct right now, he is a preacher after all.
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The GoFundMe banning backfired spectacularly, only hardened peoples’ resolve, and has the residual effect of confirmation bias for many people who suspected Big Tech has it’s politically-correct SJW thumb on the scales trying to indoctrinate people politically, socially and culturally. I maybe wrong, but for some of us who aren’t hard leftists those are the optics.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
has the residual effect of confirmation bias for many people who suspected Big Tech has it’s politically-correct SJW thumb on the scales trying to indoctrinate people politically, socially and culturally
Which is nothing new - Big Religion built the template for thought control and crushing social diversity centuries ago.
As you say, the optics depend on where you sit, particularly for issues like this, and the changing times of what people consider acceptable/tolerable.
I saw a tweet recently on another topic to the effect of: "When people say 'you can't say anything nowadays!' they mean 'I've noticed racism is much less tolerated than it was' ... "
@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
The GoFundMe banning backfired spectacularly,
I'd say that it certainly didn't hurt the Folau cause, and may have even been planned that way by his PR team.
But "spectacularly" should really be judged on whether he gets many more donations this time around from the general public - so take off $100K from the ACL and he's on $668k.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
has the residual effect of confirmation bias for many people who suspected Big Tech has it’s politically-correct SJW thumb on the scales trying to indoctrinate people politically, socially and culturally
Which is nothing new - Big Religion built the template for thought control and crushing social diversity centuries ago.
As you say, the optics depend on where you sit, particularly for issues like this, and the changing times of what people consider acceptable/tolerable.
I saw a tweet recently on another topic to the effect of: "When people say 'you can't say anything nowadays!' they mean 'I've noticed racism is much less tolerated than it was' ... "
@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
The GoFundMe banning backfired spectacularly,
I'd say that it certainly didn't hurt the Folau cause, and may have even been planned that way by his PR team.
But "spectacularly" should really be judged on whether he gets many more donations this time around from the general public - so take off $100K from the ACL and he's on $668k.
Or maybe it's because actual racism is so rare these days that people have to desperately search for it or redefine it?
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
@Jaguares4real said in The Folau Factor:
@Frank said in The Folau Factor:
Bullshit like this from GoFundMe is part of the reason why the conservative party in Aus. recently won the 'unwinnable' election.
Agree
The more folks talk about tolerance yet exhibiting it rarely in your political views/opinions the more they expose yourself to be a condescending hypocrite
It's a worldwide trend:
Trump Brexit Bolsanaro Morrison Modi winning with an absolute majority
Exclusivity does NOT mean conformity of opinions into echo chambers and corporate censorship
I always laugh at fools who utter "They're a private company who are enforcing their Terms of Service"
The willingness to concede & accept such authoritarian behaviour is sad to see
But as Lenin said "Useful Idiots"
It is hardly foolish to point out that someone was using a service that specifically excluded that usage in their T&Cs.
I see a lot of talk about these T&C's for both his employment contract and Go-Fund-Me. Do you have either that clearly show he is in the wrong here?
I was going by this...
GoFundMe’s terms of service say it can take down funds that are “for the legal defence of alleged crimes associated with hate, violence, harassment, bullying, discrimination, terrorism or intolerance of any kind relating to race, ethnicity, national origin, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, sex, gender or gender identity or serious disabilities or diseases”.
So yeah, semantics and all that, he is not defending a crime but the intention in the terms of service is pretty clear and probably defendable itself.
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I note that not one poster has attempted to take up the challenge to explain how they would be reacting if the topic was racism instead of homophobia and why it would be different.
Too many catch phrases to bandy about to promote their political stance I guess?
Funny how people of a right wing slant remained silent for years about corporate hypocrisy when it only involved making money but never treaded on the toes of their entitled feelings of being able to say what they like?
I totally get that having the corporate world effectively dictate what is right and wrong is not a good position. However, the root cause of this particular problem was a bit of unthinking and uncaring preaching that declared a group of people (or should I say men, because let’s face it, religious opposition to homosexuality is all about gay men) unworthy of a place in what they deem to be a good world.
Believing in a sky fairy does not, and should not, give anyone the right to denigrate others because of being themselves.
As I challenged before, replace gay with black and repeat your position. -
@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial So he didn't break terms of service. How about that.
https://www.acl.org.au/donate_izzy
$800,000.00 now
As I said (and you choose to ignore) the intention of those terms is not only clear but likely defendable in court. Go fund me is not something anyone is entitled to use, they can do because someone else created it.
Others that support the cause have created their own platform now which is their right and freedom. No need to put any blame on the facilitators of go fund me.Oh, and that score update as if it is a telethon is making you look rather like taking glee in the aspects of bigotry that undoubtedly contribute more to this cause than the political ones.
I have always said this would be great to have run its course in the courts because I would hope that Australian society has moved beyond outdated writings and the obvious hypocrisy of religion. I would probably end up disappointed in the outcome of bigotry hiding behind religion but we have a system to decide that so let it run.
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@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
I note that not one poster has attempted to take up the challenge to explain how they would be reacting if the topic was racism instead of homophobia and why it would be different.
Too many catch phrases to bandy about to promote their political stance I guess?
Funny how people of a right wing slant remained silent for years about corporate hypocrisy when it only involved making money but never treaded on the toes of their entitled feelings of being able to say what they like?
I totally get that having the corporate world effectively dictate what is right and wrong is not a good position. However, the root cause of this particular problem was a bit of unthinking and uncaring preaching that declared a group of people (or should I say men, because let’s face it, religious opposition to homosexuality is all about gay men) unworthy of a place in what they deem to be a good world.
Believing in a sky fairy does not, and should not, give anyone the right to denigrate others because of being themselves.
As I challenged before, replace gay with black and repeat your position.What does that even mean?
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@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial the only thing I find really hard to understand is how Tholou was denigrating. Hell isn't actually a real place. If you believe it is, you're probably 99% likely to have the same line of thinking as Furlao anyway.
Plenty of gay christians for starters. Or at least gays that were brought up as christians and struggle to reconcile the two.
For those that don’t believe in sky fairies they are just being told that they are unworthy of being themselves in a desired society.
Pretty easy to look from the outside and say “sticks and stones” but I can imagine that it would not make you feel included in society.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions