NZ Judiciary
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@jegga If National had a leader who wasn't a farking idiot, they could be making hay with this. 1.6m on a two day summit?
Also, Alison Mau is a giant hypocrite. You can't be all dum dee doo, nothing to see here, if the sexual assault stuff is within the party you support. You're against it, you're against it all.
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One of those classic "wellness" raw unpasteurised juice companies.... who didn't extend the wellness courtesy to their own staff...
A fruit juice company whose employee was killed after being dragged into machinery has been fined $367,500 and ordered to pay $141,000 to the employee's widower.
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@Tim that is grim. Real grim. I struggle with the use of home detention where it's a softer (but not easy) sentence condition. I am totally for rehabilitation but there are crimes that really challenge where the line is - or how punishment transitions to rehabilitation without undercutting the chance of genuine behaviour change.
Cause this guy is a fluffybunny. While I hope he can become a passable human being was being in prison while on remand enough stick?
Is home detention that much cheaper? Aside from the monitoring side of things surely it is. Also wonder if home detention will be seen as even softer, or possibly harder, now that people have experienced lockdown a few times.
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@Paekakboyz Yeah, I don't usually like posting that sort of thing, but that instance struck me as particularly cruel.
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@Tim and with our shit record of child abuse stuff like that is far too common
Also as the cycle continues we will continue to have people who get sentenced with consideration of their own troubled aka fucking horrid upbringings. Obviously far more context and nuance in the mix. But holy shit we need to figure out a way forward with all of this.
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@Paekakboyz i have read judges summaries citing it is tougher being a prisoner in your own home, am sure they must have data or research but you'd think it would be easier at home.
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@taniwharugby while where you are limited too obviously can vary us humans do react pretty strongly to be restricted in movement. A fair few do thrive in isolation but most of us would struggle with it after long enough.
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@bones "It just broke me when I found out what actually happened ... I have to live with this for the rest of my life.β Well fluffybunny, let me rewrite that for you: ""That man's poor mother had to see that and will live with it for the rest of her life. I'm ashamed and I need to look for ways to make it up to her and the community". Nobody gives a fuck if you have to live with this for the rest of your life - so you fucking well should, its the least you could do. Self entitled fluffybunny.
I hate this kind of thing. He says he's remorseful but his statement's actually about him feeling sorry for himself rather than the victim and family.
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@jc surely that is at the heart (or lack there of) this sort of scenario. Had he had more empathy for others, and a lot more emotional capability then things may have been different. But his focus on the impact to him, at least as it's been conveyed in the article, is beyond icky. He may have spoken about the impact on the victims family but it clearly hasn't been reported.
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@jc said in NZ Judiciary:
@bones "It just broke me when I found out what actually happened ... I have to live with this for the rest of my life.β Well fluffybunny, let me rewrite that for you: ""That man's poor mother had to see that and will live with it for the rest of her life. I'm ashamed and I need to look for ways to make it up to her and the community". Nobody gives a fuck if you have to live with this for the rest of your life - so you fucking well should, its the least you could do. Self entitled fluffybunny.
I hate this kind of thing. He says he's remorseful but his statement's actually about him feeling sorry for himself rather than the victim and family.
While I understand exactly what you are saying and agree with the sentiment I also understand that he has likely been counselled to think that way, say it out loud to affirm that thinking and take on the realisation that his actions have consequences not just for others but for himself.
If we want scrotes like this to re-enter society and not repeat themselves or pass this stupid mindset on to others (including their children) we have to teach them to think about consequences. Consequences for themselves is a stronger headspace than consequences for others.
He will also have had it explained in no uncertain teams that he has badly affected the lives of others and will have had to come to terms with that.A couple of other points to note. 'Less than half his sentence' is standard. That's how the system works. However to get that release you have to be adjudged as fit for it. I have recently heard stories of just how hard those parole boards are on people like him. They really test and stretch them to see if the rehab work has truly taken hold or they are just pretending. Often to the point where those doing the rehab complain that work is undone in the process.
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@crucial I don't disagree. I get that he has probably been counseled on this because it feels scripted or coached, like the kind of thing you say because it is expected that you say something. But it misses the point. As @Paekakboyz says, that could simply be a gap in the reporting. Whatever, there doesn't seem to be much evidence of his having gained any insight into - or empathy around - his victims' suffering, so while he says he wants to make this his last time in prison I'm not going to be surprised if we see him doing something similar again.
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@jc said in NZ Judiciary:
@crucial I don't disagree. I get that he has probably been counseled on this because it feels scripted or coached, like the kind of thing you say because it is expected that you say something. But it misses the point. As @Paekakboyz says, that could simply be a gap in the reporting. Whatever, there doesn't seem to be much evidence of his having gained any insight into - or empathy around - his victims' suffering, so while he says he wants to make this his last time in prison I'm not going to be surprised if we see him doing something similar again.
Yep, bad reporting. There is a reason why we have a thread about that that includes the name of the publication this is from.
All that I can reiterate is that the PB will have questioned him hard over his understanding of victim sufferings and impacts.
Does all of that mean that he won't re-offend? Nope, but it does mean that he meets the threshold of giving him a chance to fix himself. The alternative is to make him complete his sentence which carries no incentive to take or take in rehab programmes and just gets set loose on us all the same person he was when he went in.
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@crucial said in NZ Judiciary:
@kirwan said in NZ Judiciary:
I think the ship may have sailed for a guy that murders someone over a car park.
You have an alternative? A serious one?
Get them while they are young, and make sure that there are consequences for violent behaviour.
If you kill someone, you serve the full sentence. If it's particularly bad, you don't get out at all.
I know Andrew Little wants to let criminals out of jail, but that's not a serious option.
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@kirwan said in NZ Judiciary:
@crucial said in NZ Judiciary:
@kirwan said in NZ Judiciary:
I think the ship may have sailed for a guy that murders someone over a car park.
You have an alternative? A serious one?
Get them while they are young, and make sure that there are consequences for violent behaviour.
Doesn't really apply in this case but yeah Youth Courts have an even trickier balancing act to consider.
If you kill someone, you serve the full sentence. If it's particularly bad, you don't get out at all.
And you are happy to pay for that? Serious question. These are your taxes at work. Are you also happy with the concept that punishment will change behaviour? Again a serious question as the stats don't support that position and not only does society usually suffer again the perp ends up back costing us all more money. Not having a carrot of parole means worse behaviour inside prisons (again costing more money).
I know Andrew Little wants to let criminals out of jail, but that's not a serious option.
Little isn't the MoJ anymore but if he said that it certainly isn't his position alone. The approach that you suggest doesn't work, has never worked. It's why we build bigger jails that cost more money, have generational users of those facilities and have them released to be free to make another person suffer.
A system where rehabilitation is offered, tested and chances given through reintegration is proven to reduce re-offending meaning lower prison numbers, less community damage and breaks the cycle of family generations committing crime.
No one is of the illusion that this ideal works for everyone or is even applicable to everyone but even a 25% success rate has massive short and long term effects.