Coronavirus - UK
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@r-l said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew sorry to hear that, there are always failings unfortunately and there are good and bad hospitals, GP centres, even whole ccgs that are overall worse than others . And I am biased having worked in the NHS my adult life, my experiences have been positive, a few disappointments but overall positive as a patient.
Thanks, but not an isolated incident, sadly. As a patient, have you had treatment in other countries/systems?
My optimistic little self always sees room for improvement and I know I've seen huge positive changes in our area with regards to ways of working, I hope more lessons are learned!
The vaccine rollout has been a huge success and poss. shows the way forward - imaginative thinking, great leadership (Kate Bingham deserves several damehoods, IMHO) combining the strengths of the private sector and the NHS and above all, focussing on the end result and not worrying about who delivers what to patients. Just hope it's used as a model for other stuff.
I have
Kidney stones in Japan.
Zero pain relief. It was rough.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@r-l said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew sorry to hear that, there are always failings unfortunately and there are good and bad hospitals, GP centres, even whole ccgs that are overall worse than others . And I am biased having worked in the NHS my adult life, my experiences have been positive, a few disappointments but overall positive as a patient.
Thanks, but not an isolated incident, sadly. As a patient, have you had treatment in other countries/systems?
My optimistic little self always sees room for improvement and I know I've seen huge positive changes in our area with regards to ways of working, I hope more lessons are learned!
The vaccine rollout has been a huge success and poss. shows the way forward - imaginative thinking, great leadership (Kate Bingham deserves several damehoods, IMHO) combining the strengths of the private sector and the NHS and above all, focussing on the end result and not worrying about who delivers what to patients. Just hope it's used as a model for other stuff.
I've either had, or had experiences with, medical care in UK, NZ, Australia, Austria, France, Hong Kong and Japan.
The main difference between the UK and all the others was the size of the credit card bill after the meeting.
I've long been a pusher for the Japan model, whereby you pay something like 10%. The difference that will make to the NHS would be colossal. It'll never happen though, ever. Political suicide.
Head of Medicine at Oxford told me that Canada had best system he'd seen. Public/private hybrid, I believe.
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@catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
If inflation is here to stay though, bond yields will rise. This will mean carnage in the bond markets with capital losses all over the place and the general cost of borrowing increasing dramatically. Then the chickens may be on their way home to roost as far as Govt debt is concerned.
We shall see I guess.
Wrote my view before I read your comment. Interest rates are ludicrously low...
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan i can't. Please help me.
If you take medicine for inflamed joint pain and the medicine gives you a stomach ache.
The joint pain didn't cause the stomach ache.
Covid didn't cause any loss of income and business closures. And it certainly didn't cause the harm on future economics.Lockdowns and furlough weren't a compulsory response to covid. That's the whole point, we copied a Chinese totalitarian strategy and discarded years of pandemic plans. That's some history that no one can alter.
By the way, what's with the sudden, " if you don't know i can't help you" bullshit featuring on fern discussions these days?
Either have the patience to debate or don't. Both are fine. Reminds me of the religious when asked to prove God exists😁
They may have pandemic plans. But covid19 is the biggest baddest most widespread outbreak in my lifetime. Hence the proportionally serious response. Almost every country in the modern world has used lockdowns as part of their management of the pandemic. Some made that decision after realising that staying open wasn't working
Are you under 53?
Yup
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - UK:
Wrote my view before I read your comment. Interest rates are ludicrously low...
Can see governments upping taxes to control demand and keep inflation (and interest rates) low as well as get national debt down. Won't just impact "the rich" either.
Interest rates are ludicrously low...
You can get 3-5% on top quality bond funds and 0.5% on deposit. You have to wonder is that spread is sustainable?
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - UK:
Wrote my view before I read your comment. Interest rates are ludicrously low...
Interest rates are ludicrously low...
You can get 3-5% on top quality bond funds and 0.5% on deposit. You have to wonder is that spread is sustainable?
Bonds though carry duration and with that substantial interest rate risk, even or should that be especially quality bonds. The coupon is your premium for taking on that risk. The bond market is close to a major turning point. We’ve had a near 50 year bull market on bonds as interest rates have declined. Is there much room for rates to go lower? Some I guess but there is much more room for rates to rise and they don’t have to rise too much to devastate the capital. And this remember is in a traditionally defensive asset class.
Mind you, I’ve been worrying about this for nearly 20 years now!
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@catogrande only 15 years for me!
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - UK:
You can get 3-5% on top quality bond funds and 0.5% on deposit. You have to wonder is that spread is sustainable?
I totally agree with the basic point.
In my experience it is well worth looking at portfolio of such funds. The rating agencies are vastly more reliable at rating companies than CLOs, MBSs and the rest of the credit ‘alphabet soup’.
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I have a small short-term bond weighting in my portfolio. Use them instead of cash holdings with interest rates so low. Fund gives me a 3% return with average underlying maturity date of about 1-2 years. Looked at Bond Index funds but got a bit twitchy as they use debt instruments/derivatives.
I'm generally much more comfortable with equities and pretty conservative in my approach.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan i can't. Please help me.
If you take medicine for inflamed joint pain and the medicine gives you a stomach ache.
The joint pain didn't cause the stomach ache.
Covid didn't cause any loss of income and business closures. And it certainly didn't cause the harm on future economics.Lockdowns and furlough weren't a compulsory response to covid. That's the whole point, we copied a Chinese totalitarian strategy and discarded years of pandemic plans. That's some history that no one can alter.
By the way, what's with the sudden, " if you don't know i can't help you" bullshit featuring on fern discussions these days?
Either have the patience to debate or don't. Both are fine. Reminds me of the religious when asked to prove God exists😁
They may have pandemic plans. But covid19 is the biggest baddest most widespread outbreak in my lifetime. Hence the proportionally serious response. Almost every country in the modern world has used lockdowns as part of their management of the pandemic. Some made that decision after realising that staying open wasn't working
According to Niall Ferguson (outstanding historian, not covid death over estimator) explains 3 years in recent history with more excess deaths than 2020 in Britain: 1918, 1940 and 1951. The first 2 are easy. In 1951 there was a severe influenza epidemic, just in Britain and particularly the Liverpool region. More excess deaths than 2020.
In terms of months, April 2020 isn't in the top 10 months for excess mortalities since 1970. So in your lifetime there have been significantly worse months of excess mortality in Britain than April 2020 - the same time and month that lockdowns and copying the China strategy were adopted.
So, historically not the biggest and baddest.
I know where we all are at right now. I share the sentiments of "we're here now let's deal with it". I get that we all see vaccination compliance as the fastest way out of this, most probably over and above the health aspect - as the fern poll of why will you get the vaccine showed - everyone here named social ease as the principle reason.
I get that it's a shit situation that can't be undone and the sooner it's over the better. Vaccines will do it, but so will an attention shift from msm, imo.But it's also never the time to manipulate or overlook history and data in an effort to appease and demonstrate no wrong doing. No missteps from the authorities. No faults by them. No over the top sensationalism and hysteria.
There are lessons here to make things better for my nephews and your kids. We've fucked them already with a year of lost schooling, isolation from friends and a monumental public debt. Finding excuses thick and fast for the inept leadership, the censorship, the citizens turning on each other, the overt hijacking of the term "the science" is not going to help our kids deal with the next one.
I'm wrong to keep using hindsight, to put the boot in.
But you guys are wrong to commend and make excuses for the handling of the pandemic as though Boris et al have achieved something gallant. They've just peddled fear at every opportunity.
"how did it all start Dad?"
What are you going to tell them? All the bullshit (and genuine virus tragedy and death) flows from there.Thanks for the chat - out!👍🙂
Hey mate. As you'd know I'm fairly well in the centre of this debate. I agreed with the lockdowns early, got frustrated with the repeated and extended restrictions, and am disappointed that we haven't used the time more effectively than we have to learn to live with this thing rather than try to maintain elimination.
Buy I dont want to wade into the debate you guys are having, just to address your paragraph on the kids, as I think you've gone too far and present a much more defeatist scenario than I have observed at least. Granted, the experience is different across the globe, and my frame of reference has been NZ and Australia, with a bit of Indo thrown in. And I do hear you on debt and the threat of rising interest rates in the future.
But I don't think the kids have come out of this too badly. A lost year of schooling? Sure, but so has every other kid, so what's actually lost? And look at the posdible schooling gains - they can all navigate tech better, learned a different mode of learning, had to be more self-motivated, got to spend more (quality 😬) time with their siblings and parents, didn't lose time to a commute etc, and probably came out of it reminded that what they had before was worth appreciating.
On their mindset, I can only really speak for my kids, but I've found they have managed the emotional stress really well. They've learned that they can't always control everything, that sometimes stuff goes wrong, that there is a community and social aspect that can/should govern their behaviour at times. They've learnt resilience. And they've also learned to challenge authority, not by disobeying the laws imposed, but by debating them, challenging them through us. They're less affected by the media as they don't consume traditional sources, so they've been thinking for themselves.
Of course this is all coloured by the fact that we are effectively back to normal again here. Maybe I'd have a different view if we were still locked down or living with heavily restrictive conditions 🤷♂️
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@voodoo good call mate. I certainly defer to your experience over my regurgitation of commentators I've decided to trust. Nice to hear your side of things👍
Pitching in late, it’s worth to consider more than just surviving and death for the vaccination debate.
Looks as though some people are having permanent damage from the illness, heart issues and scarred lungs. Also lethargy, things like that.
If you could avoid a bad dose of COVID from a vaccination, not only are preventing yourself spreading it to at risk people, but preventing the possibility of long term health issues.
Win/win.
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@kirwan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@voodoo good call mate. I certainly defer to your experience over my regurgitation of commentators I've decided to trust. Nice to hear your side of things👍
Pitching in late, it’s worth to consider more than just surviving and death for the vaccination debate.
Looks as though some people are having permanent damage from the illness, heart issues and scarred lungs. Also lethargy, things like that.
If you could avoid a bad dose of COVID from a vaccination, not only are preventing yourself spreading it to at risk people, but preventing the possibility of long term health issues.
Win/win.
That's just too much sense
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@kirwan yeah I didn't mention long Covid (again) because it seems to get ignored but it appears like close to 40% are suffering and not just old bastards / fat bastards
If people want to dance with the devil over this thing they are literally gambling on themselves. But if they lose big, longterm medical suffering may await. Reckless is an understatement
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@kirwan yeah I didn't mention long Covid (again) because it seems to get ignored but it appears like close to 40% are suffering and not just old bastards / fat bastards
Wife was telling me a horror story from one of the doctors of a fairly fit guy in his 40s having an awful time with Covid.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - UK:
Buy I dont want to wade into the debate you guys are having, just to address your paragraph on the kids, as I think you've gone too far and present a much more defeatist scenario than I have observed at least. Granted, the experience is different across the globe, and my frame of reference has been NZ and Australia, with a bit of Indo thrown in. And I do hear you on debt and the threat of rising interest rates in the future.
But I don't think the kids have come out of this too badly. A lost year of schooling? Sure, but so has every other kid, so what's actually lost? And look at the posdible schooling gains - they can all navigate tech better, learned a different mode of learning, had to be more self-motivated, got to spend more (quality ) time with their siblings and parents, didn't lose time to a commute etc, and probably came out of it reminded that what they had before was worth appreciating.
On their mindset, I can only really speak for my kids, but I've found they have managed the emotional stress really well. They've learned that they can't always control everything, that sometimes stuff goes wrong, that there is a community and social aspect that can/should govern their behaviour at times. They've learnt resilience. And they've also learned to challenge authority, not by disobeying the laws imposed, but by debating them, challenging them through us. They're less affected by the media as they don't consume traditional sources, so they've been thinking for themselves.Yep, on the whole I think kids have/will come out of it fine. Our experience is that as long as we're taking it calmly, so are the kids. They're just continuing on, taking life in their stride, and asking the occasional question. I've just avoided leaving any of the 24 hour news channels on for long since March last year.
(It probably helps that they aren't arguing about it all on social media/TSF too )
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - UK:
@kirwan yeah I didn't mention long Covid (again) because it seems to get ignored but it appears like close to 40% are suffering and not just old bastards / fat bastards
If people want to dance with the devil over this thing they are literally gambling on themselves. But if they lose big, longterm medical suffering may await. Reckless is an understatement
A bit hyperbolic mate? Could apply that to fast food and alcohol consumption.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
A bit hyperbolic mate? Could apply that to fast food and alcohol consumption.
Both of those take a more concerted effort over time before carnage kicks in, rather than the fleeting moment of catching a virus (unless someone goes on the ultimate bender perhaps )