Flag
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<p>I see the Greens reckon the Govt. shoulda upgraded their Vehicle fleet with Teslas instead of BMW's...</p>
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Of course they did , as sadly predictable as ever. I see one of them tried to take on Collins over her record on domestic violence , the reaming she got in response was painful to read <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/72576501/judith-collins-im-committed-to-protecting-women-and-children-from-violence'>http://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/72576501/judith-collins-im-committed-to-protecting-women-and-children-from-violence</a><br><br>
I don't understand why leftards as defending serial thug Chris brown -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="521831" data-time="1443651309">
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<p>dunno, I reckon a good portion of these people 'supposedly' keen on RP will be those who are just trying to be disruptive to the entire process in the hope of retaining the status quo, and to that end, they will have achived what they wanted.</p>
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<p>Obfuscation and entropy. Make any change look harder by confusing the issue. Same thing happened last time we had a referendum here on the Republic. The model was to have a politician-appointed head of state, and so the Monarchists came in with two lines:</p>
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<p>1) Nothing wrong with things the way they are - remember ANZACs FOUGHT AND DIED UNDER THIS FLAG (though mostly, they didn't)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2) Do you want to give politicians control of who becomes our President? Ooooooooh.... scary music... conspiracies... politicians aren't to be trusted....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway, its the standard defence of those who fear change. And not being able to call themselves Royal Fuckheads.</p>
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<p>In reality, it doesn't make much difference to me what our flag/government is.</p> -
<p>One thing that has irked me is the campaign by few to talk about how changing the flag is disrespectful to anzacs who died for the flag etc. </p>
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<p>What do ex-servicemen think about this?</p>
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<p>It seems like a load of shit to me, and I'm ready to open a huge can of whip-ass on my WT relatives who are pushing this like mad (funny how they pushed red peak too, but now are pushing for no change that red peak seems to have been identfied as the anti-JK fallicy that it was), but thought I'd ask the wisest bunch of people I know their view first...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="521865" data-time="1443658411">
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<p>In reality, it doesn't make much difference to me what our flag/government is.</p>
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<p>Change for change sake is change not worth having. I'm not upset with staying with the current flag until such time as there is a strong swell of support for change</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="521884" data-time="1443662033">
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<p>One thing that has irked me is the campaign by few to talk about how changing the flag is disrespectful to anzacs who died for the flag etc. </p>
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<p>What do ex-servicemen think about this?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It seems like a load of shit to me, and I'm ready to open a huge can of whip-ass on my WT relatives who are pushing this like mad (funny how they pushed red peak too, but now are pushing for no change that red peak seems to have been identfied as the anti-JK fallicy that it was), but thought I'd ask the wisest bunch of people I know their view first...</p>
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<p>I'm ex RNZAF and I am happy thay we have the choice and option to change and don't mind it status quo or change happens.</p>
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<p>The majority of my Air Force mates are similar in thought. A few a running the "Fought for the flag" line but it is much much fewer than I expected. I expected the majoirty of those still serving to be completely against it and am pleasantly surprised to see how open they are to change for the most.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="521865" data-time="1443658411">
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<p>Obfuscation and entropy. Make any change look harder by confusing the issue. Same thing happened last time we had a referendum here on the Republic. The model was to have a politician-appointed head of state, and so the Monarchists came in with two lines:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1) Nothing wrong with things the way they are - remember ANZACs FOUGHT AND DIED UNDER THIS FLAG (though mostly, they didn't)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>2) Do you want to give politicians control of who becomes our President? Ooooooooh.... scary music... conspiracies... politicians aren't to be trusted....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway, its the standard defence of those who fear change. And not being able to call themselves Royal Fuckheads.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In reality, it doesn't make much difference to me what our flag/government is.</p>
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<p>If NZ change to Red Peak Aust will follow fairly quickly after to a new flag</p> -
<p>what if NZ change to one of the other options, will Aussie retain their current flag for a long time after?</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="521887" data-time="1443662867">
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<p>Change for change sake is change not worth having. I'm not upset with staying with the current flag until such time as there is a strong swell of support for change</p>
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<p>That will not happen. The majority of people hate change. But when change happens many will support it strongly after a time.</p>
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<p>If we choose Red Peak 90% will support this flag in 5 years. The other 10% are just moaners who like feeling pissed off.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="521907" data-time="1443667292">
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<p>what if NZ change to one of the other options, will Aussie retain their current flag for a long time after?</p>
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<p>They will just take longer to ensure they do make the same mistake as us :yes:</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="521908" data-time="1443667568">
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<p>That will not happen. The majority of people hate change. But when change happens many will support it strongly after a time.</p>
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<p><strong>If we choose Red Peak 90% will support this flag in 5 years. The other 10% are just moaners who like feeling pissed off.</strong></p>
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<p>If we choose any of the other 4 options 90% will support this flag in 5 years. The other 10% are just moaners who like feeling pissed off.</p>
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<p>Bought to you from <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.wemakeshitup.com'>www.wemakeshitup.com</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="521865" data-time="1443658411"><p>
Obfuscation and entropy. Make any change look harder by confusing the issue. Same thing happened last time we had a referendum here on the Republic. The model was to have a politician-appointed head of state, and so the Monarchists came in with two lines:<br><br>- Nothing wrong with things the way they are - remember ANZACs FOUGHT AND DIED UNDER THIS FLAG (though mostly, they didn't)<br><br>
- Do you want to give politicians control of who becomes our President? Ooooooooh.... scary music... conspiracies... politicians aren't to be trusted....<br><br>
Anyway, its the standard defence of those who fear change. And not being able to call themselves Royal Fuckheads.<br><br>
In reality, it doesn't make much difference to me what our flag/government is.</p></blockquote>
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The anti-republic campaign was brilliant. They had James Raine singing and all that jazz about letting the people have their say. The pro campaign was shit. Not sure who they were aiming at with Gough Witless and that landed gentry tosser Malcolm Fraser telling us it was time. The thought of having those 2 dickheads as president probably put millions off the idea of a republic.<br><br>
One thing that is never mentioned is the cost of having a republic referendum then changing to a republic. I believe the figure is 1 billion. That's a shit load of cash to spend on something the majority of the population don't give a crap about.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="521906" data-time="1443667139">
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<p>If NZ change to Red Peak Aust will follow fairly quickly after to a new flag</p>
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<p>Will it be like; exactly the same as Red Peak only with a couple of extra peaks?</p> -
<p>White Twin Peak</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="521913" data-time="1443668773">
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<p>The anti-republic campaign was brilliant. They had James Raine singing and all that jazz about letting the people have their say. The pro campaign was shit. <strong>Not sure who they were aiming at with Gough Witless and that landed gentry tosser Malcolm Fraser telling us it was time.</strong> The thought of having those 2 dickheads as president probably put millions off the idea of a republic.<br><br>
One thing that is never mentioned is the cost of having a republic referendum then changing to a republic. I believe the figure is 1 billion. That's a shit load of cash to spend on something the majority of the population don't give a crap about.</p>
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<p>Those two crawling out from the woodwork trying , was the best part of it for me . They both had their "who me for president? Why I hadn't actually thought about it" cringing interviews and the pro republic movement was hijacked by much the same crowd that attached themselves to red peak. Living there it was gold to watch as a neutral.</p> -
<p>A few years from now</p>
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<p>[spoiler]</p>
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<p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/3zo4zCh.jpg" alt="3zo4zCh.jpg"></p>
<p>[/spoiler]</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="523000" data-time="1443861324">
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<p>A few years from now</p>
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<p>[spoiler]</p>
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<p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/3zo4zCh.jpg" alt="3zo4zCh.jpg"></p>
<p>[/spoiler]</p>
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<p>I didn't know Peak Engineering were contracted to the Mars manned landing program?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="523000" data-time="1443861324"><p>A few years from now<br>
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[spoiler]<br>
<br><img src="http://i.imgur.com/3zo4zCh.jpg" alt="3zo4zCh.jpg"><br>[/spoiler]</p></blockquote>
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That dead horse has beef flayed beyond on all recognition . Your arm must be really sore but you can stop now. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="519504" data-time="1443095618">
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<p>I hate red peak. It's shit bland and boring.</p>
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<p>The prevailing thought among those who know sweet FA<strong> </strong>about vexillology.</p>
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<p>Red peak is the closest option to a suitable flag out of the options. It's growing on me.</p>
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<p>It looks like a flag, it scales well, it fits in, its a pure design. </p>
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<div style="margin:0px auto;">Red Peak: The little flag that could A visual designer’s guide to flag voting</div>
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<div style="margin:0px auto;"><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://medium.com/@simon.momento/red-peak-the-little-flag-that-could-320d3094585b'>https://medium.com/@simon.momento/red-peak-the-little-flag-that-could-320d3094585b</a> by Simon Smith. </div>
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<div style="margin:auto;"><img src="https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/2000/1ouvvlSQzlvA5OKYkubPorA.jpeg" alt="1ouvvlSQzlvA5OKYkubPorA.jpeg"></div>
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<p><span style="font-weight:700;font-size:155px;font-family:'medium-content-sans-serif-font', 'Lucida Grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', 'Lucida Sans', Geneva, Verdana, sans-serif;">A</span>few weeks ago I was feeling optimistic about the flag process. The final 40 had included some excellent options. Surely, it would be an easy task to select just four decent designs from that pool. (Or so went my naive thoughts). But yet, the outcome of the grand reveal was a disaster. And it was enough to send a designer scrambling to replace his skinny chinos with sack cloth and ashes.</p>
<p>Thus it was to my amazement that earlier this week, Red Peak finally made the ballot. It began with a ground swell of support from the creative community. Then leaped sideways into the mainstream. It seemed that for the first time we’d generated some genuine public discourse; New Zealand had finally woken up. Now that we’re on the ballot, the journey can begin in earnest.</p>
<p>As a design professional, allow me to be your flag guide. Let’s break down the choices on hand and see how they perform.</p>
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<div style="margin:0px auto;"><span>01 Does it look like a flag?</span>
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<p>This is the vexingly vexillological standard that a nation’s flag must adhere too. Bullet number one on the non-existent design brief, that should have been handed to a design professional, would have said, ‘make it flaggy as f**k’. I’m paraphrasing of course. But you get the picture.</p>
<p>Using the language of the medium is an obvious need. You don’t design a website on a typewriter. Even though they both have keys and can write lines of code. Likewise, you’re not being clever or thinking outside the box when you use the wrong visual language for a task. Clever is solving the problem using the medium at hand. And for flags, it is simple geometric shapes, and careful attention to lines of symmetry.</p>
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<div style="margin:auto;"><img src="https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/12rmqJyjJ_fop-Iktmc1sMg.jpeg" alt="12rmqJyjJ_fop-Iktmc1sMg.jpeg"></div>
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<div style="margin:0px auto;"><span>2 Does it play nicely with others?</span>
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<p>We designers often talk about a design ‘having legs’. It’s a commentary on how well it will integrate with other design as the body of work around it grows. I have a rule that the first decisions are the most important. Get them right early, and every successive decision becomes easier and easier. The inverse is also true.</p>
<p>It’s a mistake to think of a flag in isolation, just flapping away up a pole. Flags end up in a variety of situations, surrounded by masses of different content. In each of these situations it needs to hold its own, but also support the adjacent content.</p>
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<div style="margin:auto;"><img src="https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1cSjooMENQvlqOvt0rMTM1A.jpeg" alt="1cSjooMENQvlqOvt0rMTM1A.jpeg"></div>
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<div style="margin:0px auto;"><span>3 Does it work at scale?</span>
<p>From flags, to badges, to icons on screens and projectors. Stickers on boats, bikes, and Bruce Maclaren Jr’s helmet. In this environment, scaling and ease of production matter.</p>
<p>Arguably, you will view flags in a scaled environment more than anywhere else. In fact you probably last saw a tiny New Zealand flag a few hours ago when checking the rugby score.</p>
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<div style="margin:auto;"><img src="https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/11Z8nUeu-fqTR18tE_5nrBQ.jpeg" alt="11Z8nUeu-fqTR18tE_5nrBQ.jpeg"></div>
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<div style="margin:0px auto;">4 Does it use pure design?
<p>There’s only one flag in our selection that uses the principles of design to achieve balance and harmony. The others use visual language more at home on a logo — Potentially, a logo for cheaply made ‘New Zealand’ goods. As a design professional, they appear crass and poorly thought out. It’s a children’s picture book approach, (oh look a fern!), when we should have moved on to adult fiction and metaphors.</p>
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<div style="margin:auto;"><img src="https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/18bRLQyLu0KgvlABl8m6ACQ.jpeg" alt="18bRLQyLu0KgvlABl8m6ACQ.jpeg"></div>
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<div style="margin:0px auto;"><span>5 Does it create stories?</span>
<p>I wrote <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://medium.com/@simon.momento/a-visual-designer-s-perspective-on-selecting-nzs-next-flag-804784d0e9a1'>previously</a> about how we must first create the object, before we can tell the story. In this way, I’ve observed Red Peak slowly coming to life. All manner of art and personal creations have sprung into being. The design has left room for interpretation, which in turn has allowed individuals to create their own narrative.</p>
<p>People want to be involved. They want to share their vision. They want to tell their story. Seeing individuals find their own story in Red Peak, is its most compelling argument for acceptance.</p>
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<div style="margin:auto;"><img src="https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/177nZ8p1ycsqogz9fJPEuJw.jpeg" alt="177nZ8p1ycsqogz9fJPEuJw.jpeg"></div>
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<div style="margin:0px auto;">We’re beginning to find our voice and discover our story. Let this visual designer nudge you in the right direction. Give it a chance and you’re bound to find your story in Red Peak too.</div>
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