Black Caps vs Proteas 2022
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@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tierâŚ..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either âgreatâ or âvery goodâ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that groupâŚ..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didnât help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. Deadset all time legend ? Not quite.
I truly believe if he hadn't had to sit out the second innings of the CWC1992 semifinal we would have won it all
Throw in his captaincy too and you can see how we did so well. I caught every single game of that tournament and loved it all. Such great memories.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tierâŚ..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either âgreatâ or âvery goodâ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that groupâŚ..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didnât help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. Deadset all time legend ? Not quite.
I truly believe if he hadn't had to sit out the second innings of the CWC1992 semifinal we would have won it all
Throw in his captaincy too and you can see how we did so well. I caught every single game of that tournament and loved it all. Such great memories.
His onfield captaincy was key. Opening the bowling with Patel was revolutionary. John Wright tried his best but I think Crowe would have found a way slow the Pakistanis down
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@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tierâŚ..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either âgreatâ or âvery goodâ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that groupâŚ..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didnât help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. Deadset all time legend ? Not quite.
I truly believe if he hadn't had to sit out the second innings of the CWC1992 semifinal we would have won it all
Throw in his captaincy too and you can see how we did so well. I caught every single game of that tournament and loved it all. Such great memories.
His onfield captaincy was key. Opening the bowling with Patel was revolutionary. John Wright tried his best but I think Crowe would have found a way slow the Pakistanis down
Iâm not so sure. Old spud head Inzy scored at a ridiculous rate, especially for that era.
Pakistan peaked at the right time, aided by some ridiculous good luck with the weather if I remember rightly.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tierâŚ..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either âgreatâ or âvery goodâ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that groupâŚ..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didnât help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. Deadset all time legend ? Not quite.
I truly believe if he hadn't had to sit out the second innings of the CWC1992 semifinal we would have won it all
Throw in his captaincy too and you can see how we did so well. I caught every single game of that tournament and loved it all. Such great memories.
His onfield captaincy was key. Opening the bowling with Patel was revolutionary. John Wright tried his best but I think Crowe would have found a way slow the Pakistanis down
Iâm not so sure. Old spud head Inzy scored at a ridiculous rate, especially for that era.
Pakistan peaked at the right time, aided by some ridiculous good luck with the weather if I remember rightly.
Inzi definitely won it for them. We'll never know
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@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tierâŚ..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either âgreatâ or âvery goodâ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that groupâŚ..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didnât help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. Deadset all time legend ? Not quite.
I truly believe if he hadn't had to sit out the second innings of the CWC1992 semifinal we would have won it all
Doubt it. Things were going almost exactly to the plan successful in that tournament. Build up huge run rate pressure via the dibbly dobblers. But few wickets had chipped out.
But. Pakistan executed their plan perfectly. 2 old heads built up the base and preserved wickets. Imran able to change gear, Inzamam was incredible.
No captaincy magic fairy dust was going to change it.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tierâŚ..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either âgreatâ or âvery goodâ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that groupâŚ..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didnât help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. A certainty for a BCs all time XI ? You got it.
Deadset all time legend by world standards ? Not quite.
His case for all time legend status is complicated by injuries and playing for a country that didn't play test cricket on the biggest stage very often. His natural batting peak also coincided with Paddles retirement and some of our worst teams ever.
That said I'm inclined to give him all time great status simply because he does seem revered by his contemporaries and is constantly referenced as being one of the toughest batsman bowlers faced in that era. This is but one such example.
It is very difficult to put anyone from his era aside from Viv Richards conclusively above him as a batsman unless you give a lot of weight to things he never would have been able to do like play the number of tests Border did or have an epic 5 test series in England where he filled his boots.
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@rotated said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tierâŚ..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either âgreatâ or âvery goodâ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that groupâŚ..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didnât help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. A certainty for a BCs all time XI ? You got it.
Deadset all time legend by world standards ? Not quite.
His case for all time legend status is complicated by injuries and playing for a country that didn't play test cricket on the biggest stage very often. His natural batting peak also coincided with Paddles retirement and some of our worst teams ever.
That said I'm inclined to give him all time great status simply because he does seem revered by his contemporaries and is constantly referenced as being one of the toughest batsman bowlers faced in that era. This is but one such example.
It is very difficult to put anyone from his era aside from Viv Richards conclusively above him as a batsman unless you give a lot of weight to things he never would have been able to do like play the number of tests Border did or have an epic 5 test series in England where he filled his boots.
Not playing as many tests didnât hinder Paddles legacy on the game though ( although a 17 year career by rights should have seen him play 150 odd tests, not 86, damn you international cricket board ) if you look at some of the records of the gutsy triers who played alongside Sir Richard itâs staggering how ordinary some of them were but yet the great man still lead them to lots of amazing victories.
I just think overall Crowe is behind the guys I mentioned plus Tendulkar and Lara who emerged towards the end of his career. Great, but just short of legend status.
I certainly take on board what Wasim says to be fair. If the best left arm pace bowler ever rated you then you must have been pretty damn good.
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Firstly on Martin Crowe:
Australian legend Shane Warne ranked Crowe in his top 100 Test cricketers of all time, saying the Kiwi had a full range of shots and handled pace and spin equally well.
He was such a stylish and elegant player, with a touch of grace and the same skills as the best Indian players of picking up a length very early," Warne wrote.
And then to the series at hand... while I suspect that Stead being Stead will see Boult straight back in for Henry... I'm not sure what I'd do in the selectors shoes. Possibly an unchanged side. Possibly bring back Boult for Henry, or possibly give one of the other seamers a rest.
I'm still in two minds about Mitchell at 5 in Test Matches, but in practice I guess he (or whoever else they'd have picked) is a fill in until Williamson's elbow sorts itself out.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Firstly on Martin Crowe:
Australian legend Shane Warne ranked Crowe in his top 100 Test cricketers of all time, saying the Kiwi had a full range of shots and handled pace and spin equally well.
He was such a stylish and elegant player, with a touch of grace and the same skills as the best Indian players of picking up a length very early," Warne wrote.
And then to the series at hand... while I suspect that Stead being Stead will see Boult straight back in for Henry... I'm not sure what I'd do in the selectors shoes. Possibly an unchanged side. Possibly bring back Boult for Henry, or possibly give one of the other seamers a rest.
I'm still in two minds about Mitchell at 5 in Test Matches, but in practice I guess he (or whoever else they'd have picked) is a fill in until Williamson's elbow sorts itself out.
What does Warnie know though ?
As for more recent debates I think they need to give Mitchell another go given how bare the cupboard is.
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Surely Boult will come straight back in. Nobody would have picked Henry above Boult if Boult was available so do things really change that much based on one good test from Henry?
Unless of course Boult replaces someone else. But who?
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@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
You'd definitely have to include Martin Crowe, him & Hadlee carried the team for years.
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@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
You'd definitely have to include Martin Crowe, him & Hadlee carried the team for years.
But if you could only pick one youâd pick Paddles any day that ends in a Y
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@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
You'd definitely have to include Martin Crowe, him & Hadlee carried the team for years.
Lots of players have carried the NZ cricket team. Doesn't make them all World Class, just a class above their team mates.
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@crazy-horse said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Surely Boult will come straight back in. Nobody would have picked Henry above Boult if Boult was available so do things really change that much based on one good test from Henry?
Unless of course Boult replaces someone else. But who?
Don't say that too loud. These selectors have left Wags out before.
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@rotated said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tierâŚ..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either âgreatâ or âvery goodâ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that groupâŚ..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didnât help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. A certainty for a BCs all time XI ? You got it.
Deadset all time legend by world standards ? Not quite.
His case for all time legend status is complicated by injuries and playing for a country that didn't play test cricket on the biggest stage very often. His natural batting peak also coincided with Paddles retirement and some of our worst teams ever.
That said I'm inclined to give him all time great status simply because he does seem revered by his contemporaries and is constantly referenced as being one of the toughest batsman bowlers faced in that era. This is but one such example.
It is very difficult to put anyone from his era aside from Viv Richards conclusively above him as a batsman unless you give a lot of weight to things he never would have been able to do like play the number of tests Border did or have an epic 5 test series in England where he filled his boots.
Only have to listen to Akram to realize what a great batsman Crowe was... also reckon he's the most stylish batsman I've seen, he even looked very elegant when just defending, shame his career was cut short through knee problems, that was a amazing 100 he scored near the end of his career in England while hobbling around with that leg brace on.
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@crucial said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
You'd definitely have to include Martin Crowe, him & Hadlee carried the team for years.
Lots of players have carried the NZ cricket team. Doesn't make them all World Class, just a class above their team mates.
Yep weâre just lucky the team weâve had in the last five or so years is full of themâŚ..but only one is an all timer by world standards and unfortunately his elbow is fucked.
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@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@rotated said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tierâŚ..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either âgreatâ or âvery goodâ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that groupâŚ..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didnât help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. A certainty for a BCs all time XI ? You got it.
Deadset all time legend by world standards ? Not quite.
His case for all time legend status is complicated by injuries and playing for a country that didn't play test cricket on the biggest stage very often. His natural batting peak also coincided with Paddles retirement and some of our worst teams ever.
That said I'm inclined to give him all time great status simply because he does seem revered by his contemporaries and is constantly referenced as being one of the toughest batsman bowlers faced in that era. This is but one such example.
It is very difficult to put anyone from his era aside from Viv Richards conclusively above him as a batsman unless you give a lot of weight to things he never would have been able to do like play the number of tests Border did or have an epic 5 test series in England where he filled his boots.
Only have to listen to Akram to realize what a great batsman Crowe was... also reckon he's the most stylish batsman I've seen, he even looked very elegant when just defending, shame his career was cut short through knee problems, that was a amazing 100 he scored near the end of his career in England while hobbling around with that leg brace on.
Yes Crowe was a great batsmen,If you talk to test players here in Australia they still mention Crowe as world class.If he wasn't injured he would have increased his runs, average and 100s by a fair bit.
He scored 180 here at the Gabba fantastic innings against a very good Australian attack. -
@chris said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Only have to listen to Akram to realize what a great batsman Crowe was... also reckon he's the most stylish batsman I've seen, he even looked very elegant when just defending, shame his career was cut short through knee problems, that was a amazing 100 he scored near the end of his career in England while hobbling around with that leg brace on.
Yes Crowe was a great batsmen,If you talk to test players here in Australia they still mention Crowe as world class.If he wasn't injured he would have increased his runs, average and 100s by a fair bit.
Agree that Martin Crowe is the most stylish batsman I have seen . ever, in whole world. Technically perfect, yet not a bore (say, like Dravid), and elegant.
Shame about the start and tail of his career numbers obscuring slightly what a great player he was, or should have been.
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@chris said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@rotated said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define âWorld ClassââŚ.thatâs a label Iâd only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course weâve also had quite a few Iâd consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what youâre saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tierâŚ..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either âgreatâ or âvery goodâ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that groupâŚ..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didnât help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. A certainty for a BCs all time XI ? You got it.
Deadset all time legend by world standards ? Not quite.
His case for all time legend status is complicated by injuries and playing for a country that didn't play test cricket on the biggest stage very often. His natural batting peak also coincided with Paddles retirement and some of our worst teams ever.
That said I'm inclined to give him all time great status simply because he does seem revered by his contemporaries and is constantly referenced as being one of the toughest batsman bowlers faced in that era. This is but one such example.
It is very difficult to put anyone from his era aside from Viv Richards conclusively above him as a batsman unless you give a lot of weight to things he never would have been able to do like play the number of tests Border did or have an epic 5 test series in England where he filled his boots.
Only have to listen to Akram to realize what a great batsman Crowe was... also reckon he's the most stylish batsman I've seen, he even looked very elegant when just defending, shame his career was cut short through knee problems, that was a amazing 100 he scored near the end of his career in England while hobbling around with that leg brace on.
Yes Crowe was a great batsmen,If you talk to test players here in Australia they still mention Crowe as world class.If he wasn't injured he would have increased his runs, average and 100s by a fair bit.
He scored 180 here at the Gabba fantastic innings against a very good Australian attack.You can't get any higher praise than from former international players he competed against, yeah, was a real shame he wasn't able to play longer... I remember that superb innings of his over the ditch at the Gabba very well.
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@rapido said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@chris said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Only have to listen to Akram to realize what a great batsman Crowe was... also reckon he's the most stylish batsman I've seen, he even looked very elegant when just defending, shame his career was cut short through knee problems, that was a amazing 100 he scored near the end of his career in England while hobbling around with that leg brace on.
Yes Crowe was a great batsmen,If you talk to test players here in Australia they still mention Crowe as world class.If he wasn't injured he would have increased his runs, average and 100s by a fair bit.
Agree that Martin Crowe is the most stylish batsman I have seen . ever, in whole world. Technically perfect, yet not a bore (say, like Dravid), and elegant.
Shame about the start and tail of his career numbers obscuring slightly what a great player he was, or should have been.
Funny you should mention him.
While unpacking after moving house I found a book on 100 greatest test cricketers published in 2006, basically its one bloke splitting players into a first XI, a second XI and so on ( choccie fish to whoever guesses the identity of the only kiwi to make it
) a really awesome book to have on the coffee table and look through.At that stage Dravid had played 100 odd tests with an average of 57. He finished with an average of âonlyâ 52âŚ..safe to say he faded as he went on, same with Ponting who did the same to an even greater extent ( 58 to 51 ). Even Tendulkar finished on 53.
Is there a chance the same could happen to our Kane ? Particularly if the elbow problems persist ?
Cricket: Warne rates Mark Waugh better than Steve - NZ Herald
