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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan I don't think the cost can be reduced to an either or, lives vs economy choice. This is the kobayashi maru, all choices are bad and all result in someone suffering
And I didn't say that, I'm saying that the damage done will cost lives (suicide increase, health impacts from stress, loss of income, etc). On top of that is the economic impacts which will increase poverty and reduce opportunities for people.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Where I disagree is that it's not NZ's responsibilty to solve that problem. Their job is to source potential vaccines for it's citizens. I'd be surprised if we do end up getting vaccines that much before countries like the UK, anyway.
Yep. In practice I'll be very surprised if we end up with a vaccine widely available in NZ before @MajorRage's neighbour gets a vaccine.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan I don't think the cost can be reduced to an either or, lives vs economy choice. This is the kobayashi maru, all choices are bad and all result in someone suffering
And I didn't say that, I'm saying that the damage done will cost lives (suicide increase, health impacts from stress, loss of income, etc). On top of that is the economic impacts which will increase poverty and reduce opportunities for people.
I wasn't arguing with what you said, if anything just expanding on it. The pain will be spread, no one will escape unaffected
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@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan yeah and hindsight will surely just be an argument of how fucked over everyone was, rather than if. A right shit sandwich for sure
Hindsight is 20/20. All things considered NZ has come out alright to date
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
the vulnerable people who live around me deserve it much more than any single person in New Zealand.
Sorry for you that your head is in such a bad space that you could write something so totally fucked up.
The very idea that your vulnerable neighbour is more deserving than someone with (e.g.) MS or cancer in NZ.....
Not sure you could be further away from understanding my point there. And shove your head space comment up your arse.
Of course she will appreciate that Brazil has been far more "ravaged" than the UK and so will happily forego her dose of a vaccine in favour of someone more deserving from Sao Paulo's favelas.
Did read all of what I wrote? Maybe read the last sentence again eh?
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I can see where MajorRage is coming from. NZ has been far less effected than other countries, and there are people doing it tough still in lockdown (either self imposed, or government imposed).
So the sentiment is right, you want to help the people most effected where possible.
Yes, exactly. During D-day should they have been sending guns to NZ, instead of the front line assaults, just in case?
Where I disagree is that it's not NZ's responsibilty to solve that problem. Their job is to source potential vaccines for it's citizens. I'd be surprised if we do end up getting vaccines that much before countries like the UK, anyway.
In behind the front line assault of my thought process, I don't think I disagree with the above. Doesn't mean that I haven't earned the right to be extremely pissed off if NZ remains covid-free (pretty big IF, granted) and gains vaccines before the UK.
As plenty of people have said, there is a huge cost to how government's have handled this pandemic. The tail of devastation to the economy, people's mental health, etc isn't going to be felt for some time. And when we do the final tally, I'm not convinced that we haven't just swapped how people die from column A to column B and done little to no overall good.
I'm 100% sure you haven't. But that's hard to debate / discuss at this point in time with too many unknowns.
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@taniwharugby Well if we are importing foreign semen we are going to have health issues.
Sometimes an "a" is really important although in this case it wouldn't change anything, just a different pox being brought in.
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so another 23 of those imported cases today, plus 2 related to the POrt worker in the community.
Assume the workers imported by Sealord is all at thier expense too?
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@Stargazer guess it highlights the importance of continuing using the App and just being smart as well as kind, I admit I was using it diligently when under L2, but I've become slack since dropping to L1.
As long as they can trace them, there should be no reason why we go back up any of the levels.
Timely article today, although I think the people there are probably more likely to be a bit more compliant.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
the importance of continuing using the App
This. I will be fucked off if we head back into another lockdown simply because people are complacent morons.
Bang on all you like about the government getting the strategy wrong but until people take some personal responsibility they should shut the fuck up.
I was only thinking an hour or so before the announcement about The Malt that I hadn't seen anyone use the app for at least a week.
We dodged a bullet with the JetPark nurse because they were able to effectively contact trace very quickly. That pub was apparently heaving Friday. If everyone that was there had used the app they'd have been self-isolating since yesterday evening and contact tracing would already be well underway.
Most people can probably recall they went to the boozer Friday night but will they remember all their other movements - unlikely.
Also what chance an effective lockdown in the middle of summer - yeah nah.
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@canefan think it just highlights how tricky it will be to 'eliminate' the virus form the community and keep it out.
So there needs to be a concerted approach around education (masks, social distancing) ensuring use of the app to avoid any chance of another lockdown.
We are fortunate out numbers even with this isolation breakout are still low, so managing it better is key.
Also, isn't it cos of lazy folks we need to import workers
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SA, WA and Queensland to a lesser extent haven't had community cases for months and we don't hear about quarantine breaches in those states, with the exception of Queensland a few weeks ago. Makes me wonder about NZ's border control. Is it as strong as it could be?
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@akan004 I checked all three of those airports and they have no international flights today, only domestic. So plague ridden arrivees are presumably sitting out their quarantine in NSW or Vic before getting on a flight to the other state capitals. I thought those three had pretty much drawn the bridge up over the moat anyways isolating the two most populous states?
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Think we have had a fair bit of luck in dealing with CV when you think about all the potential gaps and breaches along the way.
Reckon they needed to charge the first couple of breaches to the full extent of the law to make people know breaches would not be tolerated
Official figures show 32 people breached Covid-19 isolation rules during a 58-day period between April and June.
Nobody was charged, with all incidents dealt with via warnings and education.
The breaches occurred between 17 April and 14 June, for either absconding, failing to return, or attempting to flee the managed isolation facilities.
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For those who ranted and raved about the lockdown in NZ, I'll just leave this graph here. These figures despite Switzerland having never removed all covid measures and with a population that has a worldwide reputation for "following the rules"
Coronavirus - New Zealand