-
Topical extracts from an op-ed by Joe Scarborough:
An email Wolff describes as "purporting to represent the views" of chief economic adviser Gary Cohn neatly summarises what campaign workers and White House staff have been telling me about Trump for two years.
He is an "idiot surrounded by clowns. Trump won't read anything - not one-page memos, not the brief policy papers; nothing. He gets up halfway through meetings with world leaders because he is bored. And his staff is no better."
[...]
But Fire and Fury reveals that White House staff and Cabinet members believed Trump's intellectual challenges went well beyond having a limited reading list: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin called him an "idiot," Cohn dismissed him as "dumb," national security adviser H.R. McMaster considered him a "dope" and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson infamously concluded that the commander in chief was a "moron."
-
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
Where did anyone say accomplishments as president?
Massivly transparent attempt to move the goal posts from you.What a predictable response, premised on the pathetic notion we'd be discussing Trump if he didn't become President.
Do you have something that isn't a press release from the Whitehouse?
If these are achievements, you've got a very low bar:
Worked to promote the sale of U.S products abroad.
Made enforcement of U.S. trade laws, especially those that involve national security, a priority.lol
It was a point made by Rembrandt about Trump being an idiot. The premise was a discussion on wether Trump is an idiot or not.the Idiot in power. The power, for anyone with more than a couple of firing synapses, would be political. I'll help you out here; that would be because he's President.
Are we to take your white knighting as a rebuttal that he's a colloquial idiot, simply because he became President?
Whatever tangent you went off on and then could not bail out from is not my concern. What is funny is that you couldnt just man up and admit you got it wrong and just had to keep digging.
More of your fervent imagination again.
Low bar? Well you have moved the goal posts again.. now they have to meet your standard? yeah nah.
They do for me to accept them as achievements.
you asked for a list of accomplishments.. you got them. Now you are whinging because of the source.
I don't consider lobbying without outcome an accomplishment. People who do no doubt have a trophy room for their participation awards.
No @Rembrandt made it very clear he was talking about the last 2 years. That was directly in the post you questioned. You decided after your nonsense was called that suddenly we were talking about the last year. You just tried to move the goal posts to cover your own nonsense and complete inability to EVER say you are wrong about anything.
Winning the nomination and winning the election are massive accomplishments. And guess what they were within the last 2 years. -
@antipodean said in US Politics:
Topical extracts from an op-ed by Joe Scarborough:
An email Wolff describes as "purporting to represent the views" of chief economic adviser Gary Cohn neatly summarises what campaign workers and White House staff have been telling me about Trump for two years.
He is an "idiot surrounded by clowns. Trump won't read anything - not one-page memos, not the brief policy papers; nothing. He gets up halfway through meetings with world leaders because he is bored. And his staff is no better."
[...]
But Fire and Fury reveals that White House staff and Cabinet members believed Trump's intellectual challenges went well beyond having a limited reading list: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin called him an "idiot," Cohn dismissed him as "dumb," national security adviser H.R. McMaster considered him a "dope" and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson infamously concluded that the commander in chief was a "moron."
Joe Scarborough.. lol ok...
If you are relying on Wollfe and Scarborough for your Trump analysis.. I can see why you react the way you do. You should watch Rachel Maddow as well.. you would love her. -
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@rembrandt said in US Politics:
Is Trump still an idiot though?..a meany, a bully, crass, offensive etc I could get on board with, but surely the idiot ship has sailed which what he has achieved in the last 2 years.
Actual achievements are?
From top of my head:
Becoming republican nominee despite almost all media and even the republican establishment
Winning presidency despite all odds
Expertly and accurately dismantling MSM credibility
Eliminating Isis
Record unemployment
Booming stock market
Massive cuts in illegal immigration
Huge regulation cuts
Following through on the promise to recognise Jerusalem the capital of Israel
Delivering promised tax cuts
..and from what I understand from recent events he has also fixed global warming.Sure there's if's ,buts and maybes on all of these but taking into account the fiercely biased media representation of him he really has done incredibly well in my estimation.
-
@rembrandt said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@rembrandt said in US Politics:
Is Trump still an idiot though?..a meany, a bully, crass, offensive etc I could get on board with, but surely the idiot ship has sailed which what he has achieved in the last 2 years.
Actual achievements are?
From top of my head:
Becoming republican nominee despite almost all media and even the republican establishment
Winning presidency despite all oddsYeah, I'll give you those.
Expertly and accurately dismantling MSM credibility
According to whom? People derided the left slant of MSM long before Trump.
Eliminating Isis
You are aware that the International community was fighting ISIS long before Trump even nominated? Obama was bombing ISIS and sending in ground troops to Iraq years before Trump became President.
Record unemployment
It's not record unemployment - It's currently 4.1, it's been as low as 2.5
It was lower in the 1950s and 1960s and has been on a downward trend since 2010.Booming stock market
Here's the last 10 years as it recovered from the GFC:
Massive cuts in illegal immigration
Where do you get this information from? The Dept. of Homeland Security Immigration Statistics has a fact sheet on Apprehensions by the U.S. Border Patrol during the period 2005–2010, I can't find a newer version. And the Alien Incarceration Report doesn't say there's been cuts.
Huge regulation cuts
Here's a good read on that issue.
Following through on the promise to recognise Jerusalem the capital of Israel
He's in a line of people to do that. Hell, even Hillary did...
Delivering promised tax cuts
Yep, that's an obvious one.
..and from what I understand from recent events he has also fixed global warming.
Hahaha, ok.
-
@antipodean interesting, thanks. It looks like trends either stayed the same or slightly improved since Trump took over. So if we believe he's a complete idiot, does that mean being president is not that hard?
I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, it just appears to me that everything clicks over regardless of who has the top job.
-
@antipodean Like I said, lots of ifs, buts and maybes. Not bad for a supposed idiot though especially considering 'expert' predictions about what was to happen. You could say the expectation bar was set incredibly low, unfortunately rather than have a bit of introspection about his non-disatrious reign many popular political commentators seem to have instead doubled down on the craziness.
A couple articles from left leaners on illegal immigration and unemployment records:
-
@no-quarter said in US Politics:
@antipodean interesting, thanks. It looks like trends either stayed the same or slightly improved since Trump took over. So if we believe he's a complete idiot, does that mean being president is not that hard?
I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, it just appears to me that everything clicks over regardless of who has the top job.
Many things fall into that category. Stock market and unemployment are two significant ones here. Both continued on trend and of course that trend is not a straight line. Any effect Trump's presidency may or may not have on either of those two markers would take some time to be effective. For sure, in the stock market there could be a short term bounce or a short term drop caused by sentiment relating to Trump's being elected but in the end the stock market is driven by earnings and expectation of earnings. In any event there was no off trend bounce or drop.
-
Semantics. My mention of 'idiot' was not a calculated assessment of brain power.
Put it this way, if I came across someone that acted the way he does in real life I would probably describe him as an idiot or fuckwit or twit or twat.....
It wouldn't matter if he was building a rocket in his backyard in between brain surgeries on his kitchen table, he's still an idiot.It is remarkable to see what he has 'achieved ' in his lifetime but he's an anomaly, a freak of circumstance. All of his behaviour over the years, the bullying, the lying, the misogyny, the finding and discarding of 'friends and allies', the shooting from the lip etc should have hindered him in life but has somehow worked for him. He doesn't even surround himself with smart people to do his thinking for him. Yet somehow this buffoon (and I don't believe for one minute that it is an act), has worked himself into a position over the years where his behaviour is not only accepted by a large number of people, it is celebrated.
Don't confuse actions with achievements. Achievements are long lasting unless bettered.
Stimulation of the economy is pretty easy if you get those holding money to start using it. Present an opportunity to make more money to that group and they will grab it. Fair enough. Tends to be short lived though as gains are locked in and the initial stimulus has less effect.
I've yet to see a convincing argument that any of this economic stimulus is sustainable.
That doesn't mean that the short term benefits aren't good just that they aren't as great as some would have us believe.Now, from an international view of whether he is a good option to lead the USA, what good is a stimulated US economy if it has an insular view? Sure the US is big enough that for a period it can feed on itself but if they don't want to play then people will find new friends.
On other international levels there are people working hard to barely maintain relationships that have taken decades to build. Relationships that benefit all sides. This is where Trumps ego becomes a problem. There's a lot of give and take that makes the international community tick. By refusing to recognise anything other than a one sided view, by refusing to acknowledge that others actually provide as well as take, he will eventually break these relationships down.
-
@no-quarter said in US Politics:
@antipodean interesting, thanks. It looks like trends either stayed the same or slightly improved since Trump took over. So if we believe he's a complete idiot, does that mean being president is not that hard?
I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, it just appears to me that everything clicks over regardless of who has the top job.
If you’re in power, growing employment is always the result of careful economic management and the sensible policies of the current administration. If unemployment rises (beyond margin of error/rogue result stuff), it’s wider international economic conditions beyond your control
Very roughly reverse those strategies if you’re in opposition... or challenge the figures... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/10/19-times-trump-called-the-jobs-numbers-fake-before-they-made-him-look-good/?utm_term=.e70b4ce8cdd8
Though some parties follow a questionable playbook on arriving in power: https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/11/govt_undermining_neutrality_of_stats_nz.html
-
@crucial said in US Politics:
Semantics. My mention of 'idiot' was not a calculated assessment of brain power.
Put it this way, if I came across someone that acted the way he does in real life I would probably describe him as an idiot or fuckwit or twit or twat.....
It wouldn't matter if he was building a rocket in his backyard in between brain surgeries on his kitchen table, he's still an idiot.It is remarkable to see what he has 'achieved ' in his lifetime but he's an anomaly, a freak of circumstance. All of his behaviour over the years, the bullying, the lying, the misogyny, the finding and discarding of 'friends and allies', the shooting from the lip etc should have hindered him in life but has somehow worked for him. He doesn't even surround himself with smart people to do his thinking for him. Yet somehow this buffoon (and I don't believe for one minute that it is an act), has worked himself into a position over the years where his behaviour is not only accepted by a large number of people, it is celebrated.
Don't confuse actions with achievements. Achievements are long lasting unless bettered.
Stimulation of the economy is pretty easy if you get those holding money to start using it. Present an opportunity to make more money to that group and they will grab it. Fair enough. Tends to be short lived though as gains are locked in and the initial stimulus has less effect.
I've yet to see a convincing argument that any of this economic stimulus is sustainable.
That doesn't mean that the short term benefits aren't good just that they aren't as great as some would have us believe.Now, from an international view of whether he is a good option to lead the USA, what good is a stimulated US economy if it has an insular view? Sure the US is big enough that for a period it can feed on itself but if they don't want to play then people will find new friends.
On other international levels there are people working hard to barely maintain relationships that have taken decades to build. Relationships that benefit all sides. This is where Trumps ego becomes a problem. There's a lot of give and take that makes the international community tick. By refusing to recognise anything other than a one sided view, by refusing to acknowledge that others actually provide as well as take, he will eventually break these relationships down.
You still seem to think him succeeding is some sort of freak occurrence that is a statistical anomaly. In a way you may be right, but only if you believe everything is a statistical anomaly on some level.
Some people have painted themselves into a corner where they cannot praise or give credit for anything he does. I had similar feelings about Obama. I thought he was a slow talking sound bite spouting moron. A complete and utter fuckwit who accomplished nothing of worth at all.. So in some ways I can relate to this irrational thought process.As for your views on the economy...... simply WTF???
The economy was going to tank under Trump, everything was going to be a disaster... we were told so by 'experts'. Turns out they were full of shite. Now people are using some partisan mental gymnastics to tell us that Trump is just stimulating the economy which is 'easy'... and that good news isn't good news until it is 'sustainable'.. which usually means until some shred of bad news comes out so they can quickly and loudly crow how they were correct all along.As for the international stuff.... the US has bent over and taken it up the ass for decades and got fuck all in return except derision and demands for cash. Of course countries are not happy that the US is now longer playing the fool and subsidising them , the relationships might have benefited all sides, but that doesn't mean the benefits outweighed the costs for all sides. Look beyond Trump, the way Bush was treated was fucking disgraceful, he to as derided and mocked. Then look at Obama and how he was lauded before he even took office... based on?? Soundbites? He won a Nobel peace prize for nothing within the fist year.. fuck off! Democrats = good guys.. republicans = buffoons. That is how media and globalists like to portray things.
How the 'international community' reacts to US presidents depends alot on wether they are Republican or Democrat, The US should care less what these types of people think. They need to do what is right for them, sure make sure that international relations happen and are beneficial for all.. but benefits have to outweigh costs for all sides.
Look at Pakistan currently... taking hundreds of millions in aid money. And they are a fucking hopeless basket case when it comes to helping US interests. That money should be cut off and used to build US infrastructure. If Pakistan need a bail out.. it will come at a cost. A real cost.
Countries wont find new friends and ignore the US.. cause money.
-
@no-quarter said in US Politics:
@antipodean interesting, thanks. It looks like trends either stayed the same or slightly improved since Trump took over. So if we believe he's a complete idiot, does that mean being president is not that hard?
I don't mean that in a sarcastic way, it just appears to me that everything clicks over regardless of who has the top job.
Effectively yes - if the situation doesn't call for it and you don't make any particularly shocking policy pronouncements, the market can continue on its merry way. I'm a firm believer that economically speaking the less interference by governments, the better - take a light hand and let it run its natural course. Particularly when you're surrounded by people who are supposed to be within their area of expertise and have parameters to operate within, e.g. Federal Reserve.
Case in point; look at Dubya. Hardly considered as a genius and everything would have been great in his presidency if not for the nasty business of subprime and CDOs...
@rembrandt said in US Politics:
@antipodean Like I said, lots of ifs, buts and maybes. Not bad for a supposed idiot though especially considering 'expert' predictions about what was to happen. You could say the expectation bar was set incredibly low, unfortunately rather than have a bit of introspection about his non-disatrious reign many popular political commentators seem to have instead doubled down on the craziness.
I agree that the level of criticism is from a lot of commentators, but empty vessels make the most sound. I ignore them and don't pretend they constitute the majority, nor of considered individuals who have the access, means and opportunity to formulate their own opinions.
A couple articles from left leaners on illegal immigration and unemployment records:
Perhaps his rhetoric has had an effect, but as the article itself points out 'apprehension rates have been declining since the recession, and significantly so since their peak of 1.6 million in 2000.' If he substantially increased funding for the Border Patrol so they had more patrols, more surveillance etc. then you could reasonably correlate the two to the point you could say it had a clear and measurable effect.
From the article: During the aftermath of the financial crisis, black unemployment soared to 16.8 percent in 2010, meaning more than 1 out of every 6 African Americans was looking for a job but could not find one. The rate has steadily declined since, breaking the prior all-time low of 7 percent that was set in 2000 during the dot-com boom.
Both articles point to a continuation of trend.
-
A couple of warning claxxons keep wringing out when I try to analyse and assess trump.
-
I can't know what a president actually does or have control over on a day to day basis
It's impossible that he is across all aspects of governing the US
Is it essentially a figurehead role where he relies on all institutions and departments to continue to function
I suspect he (or any prez) has far less influence than we think and he rides praise and blame in equal measure. -
Nobody ( including Trump) knew if he'd be a good prez or not when he got elected. No political ecperience and a garish campaign that had hope and dread in equal measure depending on where you nailed your flag.
Anyone condemning or championing his success from day one did so on a hunch. Or a hope. Or a dread.
12 months on, given that we're feed subjective information, opinion and speculation, anyone strongly in the love him or hate him camp is more concerned with proving their hunch correct than an objective analysis of his performance
In short, I reckon we're getting insufficient and emotive data about whether a president is a good one or not.
Besides, isn't their true performance realised after they leave and what they left behind?
His on screen behaviour is about as raw as any data we've got so it's no surprise people assess him on that - it's how he got the job and what advocates based their hope on, and detractors their dread
A common pattern of distilling a massive complex situation down to good or bad is the media plague of modern times.
-
-
There’s talk of Oprah running for president, by the looks of her it’ll be the first time in quite a while she’s actually done some running.
I’d imagine on the campaign trail she’s going to have to confront the rumours once and for all that she’s a fur trader too. -
@jegga said in US Politics:
There’s talk of Oprah running for president, by the looks of her it’ll be the first time in quite a while she’s actually done some running.
I’d imagine on the campaign trail she’s going to have to confront the rumours once and for all that she’s a fur trader too.It would be the Marxist virtue signalling trifecta; a gay, black, Woman candidate.
-
@kirwan said in US Politics:
@jegga said in US Politics:
There’s talk of Oprah running for president, by the looks of her it’ll be the first time in quite a while she’s actually done some running.
I’d imagine on the campaign trail she’s going to have to confront the rumours once and for all that she’s a fur trader too.It would be the Marxist virtue signalling quintet ; an obese , gay, black, Woman candidate.
Made a minor adjustment there.
If she ran against Trump I think that would pretty much guarantee him a second term.
-
@jegga said in US Politics:
@kirwan said in US Politics:
@jegga said in US Politics:
There’s talk of Oprah running for president, by the looks of her it’ll be the first time in quite a while she’s actually done some running.
I’d imagine on the campaign trail she’s going to have to confront the rumours once and for all that she’s a fur trader too.It would be the Marxist virtue signalling quintet ; an obese , gay, black, Woman candidate.
Made a minor adjustment there.
If she ran against Trump I think that would pretty much guarantee him a second term.
Yep, if she doesn’t run as a Democrat it would split the vote in the left, and if she did she’s not going to be popular enough with people that disagree with her politics.
-
@kirwan said in US Politics:
@jegga said in US Politics:
@kirwan said in US Politics:
@jegga said in US Politics:
There’s talk of Oprah running for president, by the looks of her it’ll be the first time in quite a while she’s actually done some running.
I’d imagine on the campaign trail she’s going to have to confront the rumours once and for all that she’s a fur trader too.It would be the Marxist virtue signalling quintet ; an obese , gay, black, Woman candidate.
Made a minor adjustment there.
If she ran against Trump I think that would pretty much guarantee him a second term.
Yep, if she doesn’t run as a Democrat it would split the vote in the left, and if she did she’s not going to be popular enough with people that disagree with her politics.
I’d imagine the percentage of the blue collar heterosexual male vote for the democrats would be close to the margin of error if she was the candidate.
-
@kirwan said in US Politics:
@jegga said in US Politics:
@kirwan said in US Politics:
@jegga said in US Politics:
There’s talk of Oprah running for president, by the looks of her it’ll be the first time in quite a while she’s actually done some running.
I’d imagine on the campaign trail she’s going to have to confront the rumours once and for all that she’s a fur trader too.It would be the Marxist virtue signalling quintet ; an obese , gay, black, Woman candidate.
Made a minor adjustment there.
If she ran against Trump I think that would pretty much guarantee him a second term.
Yep, if she doesn’t run as a Democrat it would split the vote in the left, and if she did she’s not going to be popular enough with people that disagree with her politics.
Given this is the kind of nonsense the DNC tweets I wouldn't rule her out of running as a Democrat.
-
@jegga said in US Politics:
@kirwan said in US Politics:
@jegga said in US Politics:
There’s talk of Oprah running for president, by the looks of her it’ll be the first time in quite a while she’s actually done some running.
I’d imagine on the campaign trail she’s going to have to confront the rumours once and for all that she’s a fur trader too.It would be the Marxist virtue signalling quintet ; an obese , gay, black, Woman candidate.
Made a minor adjustment there.
If she ran against Trump I think that would pretty much guarantee him a second term.
I'd vote for Trump ...
US Politics