Crusaders name/branding
-
I think when they say 'haphazard' naming of the teams, it means proper amateur administrators who made choices under pressure when the game turned pro. They were probably more worried about signing players against world rugby, than getting the names 'right'.
That said, 'Crusaders' was always a bit of an interesting choice
-
Middlesex Crcket Club dropped the name Middlesex Crusaders in 2009 following complaints from the Muslim and Jewish North London communities after using it for ten years:
They ditched the replacement name Middlesex Panthers in 2014:
-
@sparky said in Crusaders name/branding:
Bet lost, but only because other people had the time and inclination to research Family Trees, including a distant cousin who turned her researches on that part of the family into a book.
I hope the Crusaders don't change their name because the circumstances make it inappropriate and the team means a huge amount now to their community. But, as someone who has studied and taught for many years about the appalling Crusades, I regret (a little) that the name was chosen in the first place.
Really? You remember them all? Not just have access to them, but remember all full names? That is actually impressive, I could find them up in my family tree.. but just dont have the inclination to remember them.
-
@sparky said in Crusaders name/branding:
Middlesex Crcket Club dropped the name Middlesex Crusaders in 2009 following complaints from the Muslim and Jewish North London communities after using it for ten years:
They ditched the replacement name Middlesex Panthers in 2014:
They are pathetic then. And I wouldn't recommend taking advice from the UK on any aspect of race/cultural relations.
Your point is noted though, and makes me even more pessimistic that the Crusaders wont capitulate.
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Crusaders name/branding:
They are pathetic then. And I wouldn't recommend taking advice from the UK on any aspect of race/cultural relations.
Your point is noted though, and makes me even more pessimistic that the Crusaders wont capitulate.
This is another example from the US. Iggy the Crusader was a college mascot that got ditched last year.. its was briefly national news. The Jonah Goldberg article below makes a couple of good points
-
Anyone actually have a good understanding of the Crusades era? The modern narrative seems to be roughly a bunch of evil Christians just decided to shoot off overseas and murder Muslims..seems a wee bit simplistic, I"m pretty sure there would have been some Caliphates at that time which might have a little to do with it. Definitely something that I should learn more about.
Regardless however this name change will do no good whatsoever and just opens the door further to banning everything that people might choose to take offence over.
-
@Rembrandt said in Crusaders name/branding:
Anyone actually have a good understanding of the Crusades era? The modern narrative seems to be roughly a bunch of evil Christians just decided to shoot off overseas and murder Muslims..seems a wee bit simplistic, I"m pretty sure there would have been some Caliphates at that time which might have a little to do with it. Definitely something that I should learn more about.
Regardless however this name change will do no good whatsoever and just opens the door further to banning everything that people might choose to take offence over.
I've read books, IIRC one of the popes decided that Christianity should go and reclaim the Holy Lands and all the relics that go with it. Many European Kings (King Richard the Lion Heart was one of the most famous) took up the adventure. It wasn't only the ME they tried to take either; I recall that Western Christian forces sacked Constantinople, the Eastern capital of Christianity at the time. It was basically an excuse for a big OE
-
@canefan said in Crusaders name/branding:
@Rembrandt said in Crusaders name/branding:
Anyone actually have a good understanding of the Crusades era? The modern narrative seems to be roughly a bunch of evil Christians just decided to shoot off overseas and murder Muslims..seems a wee bit simplistic, I"m pretty sure there would have been some Caliphates at that time which might have a little to do with it. Definitely something that I should learn more about.
Regardless however this name change will do no good whatsoever and just opens the door further to banning everything that people might choose to take offence over.
I've read books, IIRC one of the popes decided that Christianity should go and reclaim the Holy Lands and all the relics that go with it. Many European Kings (King Richard the Lion Heart was one of the most famous) took up the adventure. It wasn't only the ME they tried to take either; I recall that Western Christian forces sacked Constantinople, the Eastern capital of Christianity at the time. It was basically an excuse for a big OE
It was less about the Holy Lands and more about stopping the spread of Islam into traditionally Christian lands. E,g, Turkey now vs Anatolia then.
The sack of Constantinople was partly in turn retribution for the murder of RCs by the Byzantines previously. So Christians weren't adverse to killing each other.
-
Peter Frankopan's book (based on his doctorate) is probably the best to read on the origins of the First Crusade and caused a bit of stir when published a few years ago. It reassesses the First Crusade in terms of Byzantine/Turkish politics and Emperor Alexios I Komnenos' machinations to hold on to the Byzantine Empire. Well worth the effort.
-
Mark Richardson reckons it might be time. Given the history of the name and the sheer shock and grief here, especially for the Muslim community, I'm inclined to agree with him.
-
@Godder said in Crusaders name/branding:
Mark Richardson reckons it might be time. Given the history of the name and the sheer shock and grief here, especially for the Muslim community, I'm inclined to agree with him.
He's turned around from his initial stance. The team name is only very young, if they decide to change as a gesture of good faith it will not be the first time a team has changed their name because of it's perceived negative connotations.
I am sure they have more important things to deal with at the moment, but it would be a gesture of good faith for the local muslim community not to make a big deal of the team name and allow the change to occur from within. They have never voiced any opposition in public before, and I don't see why they should now
-
Before we go tearing up some fabric of New Zealand's rugby culture is it rude to ask how many crusaders members or match attendees are Muslim?
Can we survey Chch Muslims? Can we actually ask people?
Or do we just assume that from this day forward the mere mention or sight of the super rugby franchise spanning the northern region of the South island brings profound pain to a group of NZ citizens and residents?
Seems rather arrogant to righteously assume NZs Muslims would welcome a name change of a rugby team.
I mean perhaps their coping mechanisms for tragedy and historical context abilities are less frail than many who claim to speak for all.
-
@MajorRage cool, thanks for the info. I think a prudent strategy would be to wait as long as possible, current news cycle and all that.
I'm firmly in favour of no name change and I believe this to be a secondary issue to a complex problem on the rise globally
-
Ok. Let's change tack ever so slightly.
Whikst I do not agree with changing the name, as I believe that is trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist, or exists in the minds of people it doesn't affect, what alternative names can the collective minds of TSF come up with?
Best I can think of is The Cavalry. But sure that won't wash with some.
I see stuff suggested they may once have been called The Plainsmen. Which is not only resoundingly meh it's somewhat exclusive of their franchise partners.
I nearly add some disparaging names but decided let's keep yhis above the line.
-
@booboo said in Crusaders name/branding:
Ok. Let's change tack ever so slightly.
Whikst I do not agree with changing the name, as I believe that is trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist, or exists in the minds of people it doesn't affect, what alternative names can the collective minds of TSF come up with?
Best I can think of is The Cavalry. But sure that won't wash with some.
I see stuff suggested they may once have been called The Plainsmen. Which is not only resoundingly meh it's somewhat exclusive of their franchise partners.
I nearly add some disparaging names but decided let's keep yhis above the line.
Means they could keep the horses too ...
-
Man, that is soooo tempting (new names for the Crusaders)
Maybe another tack to take is to keep the name but change the imagery? As in something that is more akin to the modern usage of being 'on a crusade' rather than the knights on horseback stuff that has no connection to NZ anyway and certainly does associate the team with the historical crusades.
-
@MajorRage said in Crusaders name/branding:
How about the ultimate derogatory name, which most of the locals will be happy with
“Canterbury”
It’s Canerbry