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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
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Agree .....It was basically a sign of unity and respect to those executed in cold blood.....Everyone was talking compassion and empathy and that was a way to show it.
I agree with baron too, but think that’s a separate issue and doesn’t form part of the mosque shooting narrative.
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
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@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
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@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
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@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I don't think so, if she showed her empathy with her speeches and actions by visiting the victims and the Mosques without the hijab, I doubt anybody would have mentioned her not wearing it.
Wearing it is a small sign of approval of the subjegation of women by that religion.
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
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@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
I agree with you, dont think it is justified, but if The First Baby and Jacinda-mania has taught us anything.. it is that most NZ voters are fucking morons.
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@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
Yep she has, even some of my real hard out right wing FB mates made mention of this which to me says it all. She's been awesome.
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@Kirwan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I don't think so, if she showed her empathy with her speeches and actions by visiting the victims and the Mosques without the hijab, I doubt anybody would have mentioned her not wearing it.
Wearing it is a small sign of approval of the subjegation of women by that religion.
Fair enough, happy to stand corrected in this instance.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
I agree with you, dont think it is justified, but if The First Baby and Jacinda-mania has taught us anything.. it is that most NZ voters are fucking morons.
Personally, rarely do I see anything a politician does to give them a good look (or bad look for that matter) is justified.
Every move they make either flips up Black Jack or is bust. Jacinda got Black Jack with this episode.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
I know your position, I was talking about mine. We disagree, that is all. Unless of course you don't agree that we can have differing opinions on the matter.....?
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
I know your position, I was talking about mine. We disagree, that is all. Unless of course you don't agree that we can have differing opinions on the matter.....?
Yes you have a position, but you have nothing to back it up except virtue signalling. Flat earthers have a position also, doesnt make them any more knowledgeable on the shape of the planet...
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
I know your position, I was talking about mine. We disagree, that is all. Unless of course you don't agree that we can have differing opinions on the matter.....?
Yes you have a position, but you have nothing to back it up except virtue signalling. Flat earthers have a position also, doesnt make them any more knowledgeable on the shape of the planet...
I don't really classify the selective Twitter posts as evidence to back up either, which is all I've seen from you
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
I know your position, I was talking about mine. We disagree, that is all. Unless of course you don't agree that we can have differing opinions on the matter.....?
Yes you have a position, but you have nothing to back it up except virtue signalling. Flat earthers have a position also, doesnt make them any more knowledgeable on the shape of the planet...
I don't really classify the selective Twitter posts as evidence to back up either, which is all I've seen from you
Did you not read the article that was posted? Are you seriously questioning wether the Hijab is a divisive subject in Islam?
Do you think the statements form the ladies in thise Twitter posts are fake? Because they are on Twitter? What was selective abut them? They were their words.Stop digging Canefan. You are clearly way out of your depth on this subject.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
I know your position, I was talking about mine. We disagree, that is all. Unless of course you don't agree that we can have differing opinions on the matter.....?
Yes you have a position, but you have nothing to back it up except virtue signalling. Flat earthers have a position also, doesnt make them any more knowledgeable on the shape of the planet...
I don't really classify the selective Twitter posts as evidence to back up either, which is all I've seen from you
Did you not read the article that was posted? Are you seriously questioning wether the Hijab is a divisive subject in Islam?
Do you think the statements form the ladies in thise Twitter posts are fake? Because they are on Twitter? What was selective abut them? They were their words.Stop digging Canefan. You are clearly way out of your depth on this subject.
Read my posts. I agreed that the hijab is not a good thing. I just said I was OK with Jacko using it in the immediate aftermath of the massacre but no more. Just like Heather DPA says
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12217453
For right or wrong, for every muslim woman complaining about the PM wearing the hijab I am sure you can find others that support it.
I'll say it again, for the last time, I agree the hijab is a symbol of oppression of the muslim faith towards women
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
I know your position, I was talking about mine. We disagree, that is all. Unless of course you don't agree that we can have differing opinions on the matter.....?
Yes you have a position, but you have nothing to back it up except virtue signalling. Flat earthers have a position also, doesnt make them any more knowledgeable on the shape of the planet...
I don't really classify the selective Twitter posts as evidence to back up either, which is all I've seen from you
Did you not read the article that was posted? Are you seriously questioning wether the Hijab is a divisive subject in Islam?
Do you think the statements form the ladies in thise Twitter posts are fake? Because they are on Twitter? What was selective abut them? They were their words.Stop digging Canefan. You are clearly way out of your depth on this subject.
Read my posts. I agreed that the hijab is not a good thing. I just said I was OK with Jacko using it in the immediate aftermath of the massacre but no more. Just like Heather DPA says
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12217453
For right or wrong, for every muslim woman complaining about the PM wearing the hijab I am sure you can find others that support it.
I'll say it again, for the last time, I agree the hijab is a symbol of oppression of the muslim faith towards women
Right... but you also said it was a mark of respect. Which was accurate... but it cannot be said it was mark of respect to the victims of the shooting.. precisely because many of the victims might have hated the idea of the Hijab.
It could only be claimed that it was a mark of repsect to the sect within Islam that believin the Hijab and th repression of women.. why would we want to show a mark of respect to that immediately after a shooting in a mosque?Just read that article.. what a bunch of vague gobble de gook. What point was she trying to make? It is ok to wear the Hijab.. because it is a sign of Islam? According to who exactly?
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I’m not too wound up about the head scarf because I’ve always associated a woman wearing a black head scarf with a funeral. Too many statues and images of Queen Victoria in my youth. I see a woman in a hijab and my gut tells me somebody died and she’s in mourning.
Seems to me people are suffering PTSD. Reason & logic are out; emotionalism, symbology and feelings are in. Jacinda is our Oprah, the Healer-in-Chief.
Christchurch Gunman in Mosque