Hang on a sec

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="551316" data-time="1452159739">
<div>
But now with robotics & so on there aren't thousands of low paid unskilled labouring jobs, or if there are the Romanians & Bulgarians are already doing them. 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Automation is going to make Western populations less employable as time goes by. Once robots do our cleaning for us, were do the unwashed masses turn?
 
Finland's experiment with basic wage for all will be interesting:
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33977636'>http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33977636</a>

Godder

Immigration is hard - most people clearly know very little about it. Studies show that immigration is a net positive economically, but it's a small impact unless numbers are cranked right up. Generally, the jobs taken by migrants are balanced by jobs created by their existence e.g. food, clothing, transport, housing, general consumption. It's a common misconception that allowing migrants to get visas as lowskilled workers undercuts locals, but most tertiary institutions are reliant on foreign students to stay afloat, and a number of regional towns and industries are dependent on migrant workers because NZers are less than keen to move there permanently, or take on that kind of work (e.g. farming, rest homes). Cutting back on that type of immigration will cause issues for those places and industries. However, too much of it depresses wages, and prevents unskilled locals from finding work, and can create an underclass of low skilled migrants. 
The flipside of that is the major issue with the concept of skilled migrants is that it cuts out opportunities for locals and interferes with their ability to study or retrain to fill those roles. Imagine doing career planning at high school 5 years ago and deciding to study accounting because there was a shortage at that time. You get a degree in accounting after 5 years of planning and study (2 at high school, 3 at university or polytech), and then discover you can't get a job in NZ because a stack of skilled migrants have filled most of the jobs, and the pay rates haven't moved in 5 years because the wave of migrants has repressed wage growth. That said, some skilled migrants are still needed as locals don't always stay in NZ... 
The point of the waffling above is that a mix of low and high skilled migrants is best as too much weight one way or the other creates its own issues.

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="551336" data-time="1452172136">
<div>
Automation is going to make Western populations less employable as time goes by. Once robots do our cleaning for us, were do the unwashed masses turn?
 
Finland's experiment with basic wage for all will be interesting:
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33977636'>http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33977636</a>
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Indeed. There will be an issue where a very small chunk of the population own the companies that make all the automated systems. So the jobs go, and the money is concentrated with only a few people.
 
EG Tesla teams up with Uber. 500,000 taxi drivers lose their jobs. And the profits go to 10,000 employees at Tesla/Uber.
 
Now repeat that for everything.
 
A company like Google has 50k employees in the US averaging 100k a year. So $5bn is being distributed. 50 years ago the top companies in the US were distributing $5bn (equivelant) in wages, but to 350,000 staff. Its why the middle class in the US has been evicerated.
 
Hence there is a school of thought that governments should own a chunk of all of the new disruptive tech's. IE if the US government own 10% of Google, when Google make $100bn from destroying a stack of jobs the government pockets $10bn as shareholders & uses it to pay a uiniversal wage to the 90% of the population that have no jobs & don't own shares in Google, Uber, Tesla, Lyft, Amazon, Microsoft, Intel etc.

Tim

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.dw.com/en/reports-cologne-nye-assaulters-were-largely-asylum-seekers/a-18966406'>Reports: Cologne NYE assaulters were largely asylum-seekers</a>
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">A majority of men who sexually harassed women in Cologne on New Year's Eve were asylum seekers, German media reports. City police reportedly did not want to publicize this because of its "politically awkward" nature.
 
</blockquote>

Virgil

I smell a big fat German cover up

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="551401" data-time="1452210326"><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.dw.com/en/reports-cologne-nye-assaulters-were-largely-asylum-seekers/a-18966406">Reports: Cologne NYE assaulters were largely asylum-seekers</a></blockquote>
 
I just saw the Amy Winehouse doco , I was more surprised about her dying at the end than I am about reading that. 
On the plus side, we could be experiencing an influx of cashed up Europeans wanting to move here to get away from the idiocy of Merkel etc .

Tim

We already have thousands of French moving to NZ every year. :-/
 
;)

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="551412" data-time="1452216073">
<div>
I smell a big fat German cover up
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Kim.com?

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="550922" data-time="1452039325">
<div>
so if a topic is locked, some people (mods?) can still post in it?
 
hypothetically speaking for example, in a global warming thread - someone could post an article from one point of view after it's locked so nobody would be able to rebut it?
 
now there's a conspiracy
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Stop your whining buttercups.

NTA

That article is pretty short on facts, beyond this:
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">According to the newspapers' reports, citing officers on duty on New Year's Eve, officials checked the IDs of at least 100 people present at Cologne's central station on December 31 after their behavior became conspicuous. Seventy-one people were identified, 11 people were remanded into custody and 32 criminal complaints were registered, according to the Welt am Sonntag (WamS) report.
"There were, quite to the contrary of what was said publicly, identity checks on numerous people," the WamS quoted an unnamed officer as saying. "Most of them were recently-arrived asylum-seekers."
The first internal police report on the event - a so-called "wichtige Ereignis Meldung" ("important event announcement") - spoke of a crowd mainly of "North African and Arab" origin. According to the KÃ¶lner Stadt-anzeiger, the officer leading the team at the station wanted the report to include mention of the Syrians and asylum seekers, but the senior officer writing the "WE-Meldung" decided not to, saying it would be "politically awkward."
It is still unclear whether the same persons were involved in the assaults.</blockquote>
 
 
Other than that, two unnamed officers reporting the same guys were in on the sexual assault stuff.
 
The chief of police should lose his job for putting out bullshit statements about peaceful conduct, but unless you've got this "thousand" men of "North African and Arab origin" all lined up and can prove they're asylum seekers, you're distilling the bits you want out of Chinese whispers.
 
At night on NYE I'll bet most men tend to look foreign - and what if they're second- or third-gen immigrants who happen to be a bit swarthy?
 
And, regardless of who the fuck they are and where they come from, its disgusting and they should get deported if they're asylum seekers, or serious jail time and fines if they're citizens.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="551454" data-time="1452236954">
That article is pretty short on facts, beyond this: 
Other than that, two unnamed officers reporting the same guys were in on the sexual assault stuff. 
The chief of police should lose his job for putting out bullshit statements about peaceful conduct, but unless you've got this "thousand" men of "North African and Arab origin" all lined up and can prove they're asylum seekers, you're distilling the bits you want out of Chinese whispers. 
At night on NYE I'll bet most men tend to look foreign - and what if they're second- or third-gen immigrants who happen to be a bit swarthy? 
And, regardless of who the fuck they are and where they come from, its disgusting and they should get deported if they're asylum seekers, or serious jail time and fines if they're citizens.</blockquote>
 
I ain't obsessed with camel rooters being rapey, I was saying this was going to happen months ago because of the way they see us and their belief that our laws are irrelevant as Sharia law is the one they follow. Sure enough they've behaved even more appallingly than I said they would in the thread that got locked . 
How did they think they were going to be able to stop word of what happened getting out in the internet age ? 
It looks like the poms are going to exit the eu if the latest polls are anything to go by, any of our British posters think that helping keep out these ferals is a factor?

Catogrande

Jegga - I'll go out on a limb here - I don't see anyway that we will exit the EU. There are simply too many problems to overcome and too many side stories to consider. The big one being what if there is a geographical split on the referendum and Scotland wants to stay in the EU? What price another referendum on Scottish independence? I could quite see our terms of membership being watered down with border controls and movement of people in general being high on the list, but beyond that I don't see much happening. There are also a load of vested interests - God knows how many Euro MPs we now have slurping along on the gravy train, plus so many others as special envoy to the EU covering egg production or cucumber sizing or whatever bollocks they can think up. These pretty much failed politicos (Neil Kinnock anyone) are paid at a level that their UK counterparts can only dream about.
 
It's a truism that eggs are a lot easier to scramble than to un-scramble.

jegga

Cheers Cato that was an interesting take , I was reading this <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.3news.co.nz/world/majority-of-brits-would-leave-eu---poll-2016010715'>https://www.3news.co.nz/world/majority-of-brits-would-leave-eu---poll-2016010715</a>

Catogrande

I'm always a bit sceptical about such polls to be honest. As in most elections there are the die hard fors and againsts and it is the middle ground that decide things. Experience shows me that on one off referendums there is a very high chance of there being no change because people don't like and fear change. Then there is the transient nature of many of the people who say they are for change, taking an overly emotive stance which many back down from, either because their particular fear has been assuaged or they are all wind and piss in the first place and are just blowing off steam.
 
One of the things I have to do in my work is to try and ascertain clients' appetite for investment risk on an ongoing basis. The first step in this is to get them to complete a short questionnaire to arrive at a score which is then the basis for further discussion. It may come as no surprise but almost any client will exhibit a seemingly greater appetite for risk if their recent experience has been good and vice-versa if their investments have disappointed. I feel that there is a significant element of this in the current polling - strip out the immigrant issue and I reckon the results would be quite different. So Cameron's task is to make the immigrant issue as irrelevant as possible for the UK and then it should be mission accomplished. If not I feel the vote will be close but still for remaining in the EU. Also, don't forget, the wording on the referendum voting slips has yet to be revealed, don't under-estimate the slipperiness of the politicians to frame it to suit their agendas. A simple in or out? I doubt it.

jegga

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11571501'>http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11571501</a> 
I'm quite surprised he got to do 19 universities before it made the news.

Rancid Schnitzel

I think Britain will stay in the EU. From the outside looking in it seems to be like a man contemplating leaving his wife. Yes she's become fat and bloated, nags too much and costs you shit loads of money. Yes she has stupid rules and doesn't give a damn what you think. But you've been together for so long that the thought of being without her is farking scary. A divorce will also be ridiculously complicated and involve all manner of legal bullshit. Add the fact that she still gives the very occasional blow job. What happens if I leave and never get another bj? Taking all that into account, maybe it's best to go with the safe option.

Rancid Schnitzel

The response to the Germany thing has been quite incredible. Women get molested so the solution is for them to dress conservatively, stay in groups, and keep an "arms length" distance from strange men. What next? Gay men should act less camp and not hold hands to avoid being bashed? 
What the hell is going on?

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="551564" data-time="1452324357">The response to the Germany thing has been quite incredible. Women get molested so the solution is for them to dress conservatively, stay in groups, and keep an "arms length" distance from strange men. What next? Gay men should act less camp and not hold hands to avoid being bashed? 
What the hell is going on?</blockquote>
 
The obvious solution is for women to dress from head to toe in a shapeless black outfit and never leave the house without a chaperone . 
Gays are really out of luck unfortunately , either a sex change like gays are forced to have in Iran or a one way trip to the quarry .

Donsteppa

I found this article from the Guardian to be.... something - I'm not quite sure what.<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve'> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve</a>
 
Dig into the first full page of the comments sections... ignore the "Guardian picks" comments - but note how relatively few likes the Guardian Picks have compared to the main responses on the first page or so. e.g
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
Finally, after several days of refusing to report the biggest story of 2016 so far because it does not fit with its highly ideological driven narrative, this paper is allowing comments on a story which has shown its contempt for victims of sexual assault. It's predictable enough that the first writer to tackle this does not ask why the Mayor of Cologne and many on the left are blaming the victims themselves for their own rapes. The writer should at least acknowledge the only solution left available to citizens, when the police cannot protect them from clear danger and politicians blame victims for the crime simply because the perpetrator was a foreign male of arabic extraction, is to arm themselves. Please never print another article on women's rights ever again, you have no credibility on this issue and owe those on the opposite side of the political spectrum who have now been proved correct a massive apology. I write this as a guardian reader and buyer of 17 years and someone who has always voted for left of centre parties (both of which I won't be doing ever again).
</blockquote>
 
(1907 likes thus far).
 
You know the political bias when you go to the Guardian (or the Telegraph for that matter), but I've rarely seen a comments section so full and so out of sync with the general political/ideological thrust of a paper.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="551571" data-time="1452328128">I found this article from the Guardian to be.... something - I'm not quite sure what. 
 
Dig into the first full page of the comments sections... ignore the "Guardian picks" comments - but note how relatively few likes the Guardian Picks have compared to the main responses on the first page or so. 
 <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve">http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve</a> 
 
 
(1907 likes thus far). 
 
You know the political bias when you go to the Guardian (or the Telegraph for that matter), but I've rarely seen the comments so out of sync with the general political/ideological thrust of the paper.</blockquote>
 
Cheers for that, pretty astounding really . It reminds me of the election coverage in 2014 , the media were completely out of step with the mood of the country. Like I said on the blocked thread I blame the apologists almost as much as the ferals behaving like this. Bloody glad we didn't import a bunch if people who don't give a shit about our laws or way of life like the Germans did. 
My son showed me my fuckwit of a sisters Facebook page, there's a picture of the dead toddler on the beach and a petition calling on John Key to open our country to "Syrian refugees" . The media and leftards certainly got some mileage out of that shot , this what the leftard blogs were saying at the time. <a class="bbc_url" href="https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/09/03/nothing-will-come-of-nothing-2/">https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/09/03/nothing-will-come-of-nothing-2/</a> <a class="bbc_url" href="http://thestandard.org.nz/syrian-refugees-national-backs-down/">http://thestandard.org.nz/syrian-refugees-national-backs-down/</a>

The Silver Fern

Hang on a sec