Gender Pay Equality
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I hope that is specific enough for the thread.
The last couple of years has seen a growing movement of people publicly critcising the much vaunted 'Gender paygap' as being almost totally due to differences in roles that men and women choose as well as other variables which aren't necessarily sexism as the current mainstream narrative would have us believe.
I'm currently toying with the idea of kicking controversial discussions off in my workplace which currently openly discriminates in favour of women.
It's good to see increasing examples of companies starting to realise that the pendulum might really have swung too far.
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@Rembrandt said in Gender Equality:
I hope that is specific enough for the thread.
The last couple of years has seen a growing movement of people publicly critcising the much vaunted 'Gender paygap' as being almost totally due to differences in roles that men and women choose as well as other variables which aren't necessarily sexism as the current mainstream narrative would have us believe.
I'm currently toying with the idea of kicking controversial discussions off in my workplace which currently openly discriminates in favour of women.
It's good to see increasing examples of companies starting to realise that the pendulum might really have swung too far.
I'm feeling bad about being a straight white man. Can you pass on my apologies on behalf of myself and countless others?
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@MN5 said in Gender Equality:
@Rembrandt said in Gender Equality:
I hope that is specific enough for the thread.
The last couple of years has seen a growing movement of people publicly critcising the much vaunted 'Gender paygap' as being almost totally due to differences in roles that men and women choose as well as other variables which aren't necessarily sexism as the current mainstream narrative would have us believe.
I'm currently toying with the idea of kicking controversial discussions off in my workplace which currently openly discriminates in favour of women.
It's good to see increasing examples of companies starting to realise that the pendulum might really have swung too far.
I'm feeling bad about being a straight white man. Can you pass on my apologies on behalf of myself and countless others?
Hang on. Aren’t you a ginga? Don’t try and invade my white privilege.
Ha! Predictive text changed ginga to fungal. Meh.
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@Catogrande said in Gender Equality:
@MN5 said in Gender Equality:
@Rembrandt said in Gender Equality:
I hope that is specific enough for the thread.
The last couple of years has seen a growing movement of people publicly critcising the much vaunted 'Gender paygap' as being almost totally due to differences in roles that men and women choose as well as other variables which aren't necessarily sexism as the current mainstream narrative would have us believe.
I'm currently toying with the idea of kicking controversial discussions off in my workplace which currently openly discriminates in favour of women.
It's good to see increasing examples of companies starting to realise that the pendulum might really have swung too far.
I'm feeling bad about being a straight white man. Can you pass on my apologies on behalf of myself and countless others?
Hang on. Aren’t you a ginga? Don’t try and invade my white privilege.
Ha! Predictive text changed ginga to fungal. Meh.
Only partial. Not full.
Not sure why that filthy Arab @Bones gave your post an upvote.....
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@Rembrandt that is hilarious in a sad kind of way. For an organisation that size you'd expect to see non-gender related variance in pay across similar roles. But that indication that discretionary budgets have contributed to higher female wages is very interesting!!
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My biggest gripes with the gender pay gap are:
- people never quote the studies accurately. The studies generally only talk about aggregate. At the very least they could talk about what the studies actually show.
- there's some really interesting discussion to be had, particularly in the context of family and what constitutes a meaningful life for a man and a woman, and how we structure society to ensure people are free to choose what works best for them.
But it always gets derailed by ideologues that just bullshit and lie to push their nonsense ideology that they've become obsessed with.
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@No-Quarter said in Gender Pay Equality:
My biggest gripes with the gender pay gap are:
- people never quote the studies accurately. The studies generally only talk about aggregate. At the very least they could talk about what the studies actually show.
- there's some really interesting discussion to be had, particularly in the context of family and what constitutes a meaningful life for a man and a woman, and how we structure society to ensure people are free to choose what works best for them.
- It is naked exploitation of a basic insecurity/complex that many people naturally have. A majority of people in salaried/wage positions feel they are underpaid relative to others. It is incredibly satisfying for people to know that this is due to a power outside their own control.
I honestly see no difference between someone saying "women are paid less due to the gender paygap" than someone saying "it's tough finding a well paying job because migrants are taking away all your jobs". Both are brazen and stupid arguments.
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I'm getting a little confused, I didn't think the gender pay gap had to do with the amount women and men are paid for the same job, but that on average men earned more than woman over the entire workforce. Likely due to men historically holding management jobs and females doing many of the caring, nursing roles etc.
It seems a little retarded an organisation like google would not have salary tied to the role, not to the gender?
The best places I have worked were where everyone knew what everyone was paid because the salary was attached to the role and tenure. However the opposite is when nobody knows what others are paid and some get paid way more for doing the same job, that can cause issues.
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Not exactly about the gender pay gap, but have a read of this from Yoshiro Mori (past prime Minister) here in Japan who is not doing much to break down the idea that corporate Japan is a place for old crusty men:
Meetings with women 'take so much time,' says Japan Olympics chief
TOKYO -- Board meetings with a lot of women "take so much time," the president of the Tokyo Olympics organizing committee said Wednesday in addressing a government initiative to increase representation of female directors.
"Women have a strong sense of competition," said Yoshiro Mori, a former prime minister, at a meeting of the Japanese Olympic Committee. "If one person raises their hand, others probably think, I need to say something too. That's why everyone speaks."
In line with Japan's corporate governance code, the JOC has set a goal of raising the ratio of female directors to 40%. Mori's comments came as he discussed the steps taken for the Tokyo Olympics.
"The Education Ministry has been making a fuss about increasing female directors," Mori said.
"If I say too much, the newspapers are going to write that I said bad things, but I heard somebody say that if we are to increase the number of female board members, we have to regulate speaking time to some extent, or else we'll never be able to finish. I am not going to say who said that," he continued.
"We have about seven women on our (Olympic) committee," Mori said. "They are experienced in international arenas. That's why their talk is sophisticated, gets to the point, and they are very useful."
Meetings with women 'take so much time,' says Japan Olympics chief
Ex-PM Yoshiro Mori comments on government push for more female directors
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@gt12 he's like 87 years old. I bet most dudes that age have opinions like that
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Totally not true. The hide of the man. None of us have ever thought women talk too much.
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@gt12 he doesn't seem to have a problem with women who know what they're talking about.
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@antipodean said in Gender Pay Equality:
@gt12 he doesn't seem to have a problem with women who know what they're talking about.
Yeah, to be fair - the main-point of his comments did ring true with me...
- "If one person raises their hand, others probably think, I need to say something too. That's why everyone speaks."
...It's just that it isn't women that this is relevant to... but stupid people.
The number of meetings/conference-calls/discussions I've been in... and people just asking inane questions, or making fucking-obvious comments, or just "Yes, okay buddy, so you've just re-iterated what I literally just fucking said, but in stupid-talk"Fuck you work.
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@Kruse Nailed it. Committees suck.
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Dunno about women talking too much, but I once had two women square off against each other in business meeting - one was trying to hit the other with her shoe.
Bloody scary stuff - made testosterone-fuelled, BSD Directors look like wimps.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Gender Pay Equality:
Dunno about women talking too much, but I once had two women square off against each other in business meeting - one was trying to hit the other with her shoe.
Bloody scary stuff - made testosterone-fuelled, BSD Directors look like wimps.
Sounds like you were quite a demanding boss.
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@Bones said in Gender Pay Equality:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Gender Pay Equality:
Dunno about women talking too much, but I once had two women square off against each other in business meeting - one was trying to hit the other with her shoe.
Bloody scary stuff - made testosterone-fuelled, BSD Directors look like wimps.
Sounds like you were quite a demanding boss.
I wish.
EDIT: They were both quite hot, as I recall. One was a tall willowy blonde, the other a petite, very fit dancer.
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Mori is the biggest f#ckwit ever. How he got the gig is beyond me.
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well well well, how the turntables
It appears the Qld police, in their efforts to achieve 50% female recruitment, ended up blocking 200 more qualified male candidates from graduating. Six women graduating despite not making the grade to even enter the academy.
The Crime and Corruption Commission have given them a whack, and 3 people look to have lost their jobs (wait, just suspended). You would imagine not the 3 who made the policy decision though.
Women unfairly hired to meet Queensland police gender targets, corruption watchdog finds
The Queensland Police Service engaged in "corrupt manipulation" and "discriminatory" practices to achieve a 50 per cent female hiring target, a Crime and Corruption Commission investigation found.
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I often wonder why the push for 50/50 representation never seems to apply to primary schools?
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@siam Or to Catholic Priests
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@siam said in Gender Pay Equality:
I often wonder why the push for 50/50 representation never seems to apply to primary schools?
I thought it did? I don’t know about right now but for some time there has been a push to get more male primary school teachers.
Or have I misunderstood? -
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There is no bigger myth in political discussions than the gender pay gap.
Easiest way to solve it is to simply get a couple of male CEO's to identify as chicks, then we are off to the races.
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@crucial said in Gender Pay Equality:
@siam said in Gender Pay Equality:
I often wonder why the push for 50/50 representation never seems to apply to primary schools?
I thought it did? I don’t know about right now but for some time there has been a push to get more male primary school teachers.
Or have I misunderstood?A push - as in no extra benefits or incentives.
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@siam said in Gender Pay Equality:
I often wonder why the push for 50/50 representation never seems to apply to primary schools?
Or sewerage workers......
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@frank said in Gender Pay Equality:
@siam said in Gender Pay Equality:
I often wonder why the push for 50/50 representation never seems to apply to primary schools?
Or sewerage workers......
After 5 years working with the local water authority am astonished at the lack of effort to balance he 100% dominance of male workers at the sewage plants.
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@frank said in Gender Pay Equality:
@crucial said in Gender Pay Equality:
@siam said in Gender Pay Equality:
I often wonder why the push for 50/50 representation never seems to apply to primary schools?
I thought it did? I don’t know about right now but for some time there has been a push to get more male primary school teachers.
Or have I misunderstood?A push - as in no extra benefits or incentives.
And no accepting blokes that fail the qualifications?
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@crucial
I got to witness first hand the dressing down of a Male teacher in a primary school by the female principal over the discovery in the unisex toilets of a seat left up and this was in the middle of the main hallwayIt is my opinion that they may "want" more male teachers but they don't all want their values
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@crucial said in Gender Pay Equality:
@siam said in Gender Pay Equality:
I often wonder why the push for 50/50 representation never seems to apply to primary schools?
I thought it did? I don’t know about right now but for some time there has been a push to get more male primary school teachers.
Or have I misunderstood?Dunno. Go into any primary school in Aus or NZ and glance at the staff photo board. That'll tell you all you need to know about gender equality as a priority.
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@siam said in Gender Pay Equality:
@crucial said in Gender Pay Equality:
@siam said in Gender Pay Equality:
I often wonder why the push for 50/50 representation never seems to apply to primary schools?
I thought it did? I don’t know about right now but for some time there has been a push to get more male primary school teachers.
Or have I misunderstood?Dunno. Go into any primary school in Aus or NZ and glance at the staff photo board. That'll tell you all you need to know about gender equality as a priority.
As the study I posted above indicates, males face discrimination when trying to apply for jobs like that. It's the exact opposite of attempting to achieve quotas the way they are in other areas for females. They don't even get an interview a lot of the time.
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Is that fair though? Are there really as many males studying teaching and trying to be teachers? Is 50% a realistic target?
It's the same in finance, we tried our nuts off to get females into our front office, and constantly battled. There just aren't as many candidates, and tjebknes that are there, have the typical spread of talent that you'd expect.
Having 50% representation in any particular single industry seems to me to be a misguided target
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@voodoo said in Gender Pay Equality:
Is that fair though? Are there really as many males studying teaching and trying to be teachers? Is 50% a realistic target?
It's the same in finance, we tried our nuts off to get females into our front office, and constantly battled. There just aren't as many candidates, and tjebknes that are there, have the typical spread of talent that you'd expect.
Having 50% representation in any particular single industry seems to me to be a misguided target
Yep, there's absolutely no way of achieving 50/50 targets across different sectors. It just isn't possible, because (shock horror) although there is some overlap, males and females have different interests overall. Which is just bloody self-evident if you actually live in the real world, but for some God forsaken reason a bunch of idiots have decided we must achieve 50/50 in roles of their choice (which surprisingly excludes all of the dangerous/disgusting jobs men undertake).
Which was the point of me posting that tweet/article. It isn't discrimination stopping women getting into certain areas, it's just that in a free and affluent society they actually get to pick and choose which jobs they apply for just the same as men.
