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@Catogrande said in US Politics:
I don't know how widely it is known that in the USA they ahem a Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. There is a plaque in there which lists the warning signs of facism.
Powerful and continued nationalism
Disdain for human rights
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
Supremacy of the military
Rampant sexism
Controlled mass media
Obsession with national security
Religion and government intertwined
Corporate power protected
Labour power suppressed
Disdain for intellectuals and the arts
Obsession with crime and punishment
Rampant cronyism
Fraudulent electionsSome of those aren't warning signs, but signs that it's far too late. To me the bigger question is what leads to the above warning signs.
I read an interesting quote the other day, that was from the (left wing) Atlantic:
When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders, then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won’t do. This weekend’s shameful chapter in the history of the United States is a reproach not only to Trump, although it is that too, but to the political culture that enabled him. Angela Merkel and Donald Trump may be temperamental opposites. They are also functional allies
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@Catogrande said in US Politics:
I don't know how widely it is known that in the USA they have a Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. There is a plaque in there which lists the warning signs of facism.
Powerful and continued nationalism
Disdain for human rights
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
Supremacy of the military
Rampant sexism
Controlled mass media
Obsession with national security
Religion and government intertwined
Corporate power protected
Labour power suppressed
Disdain for intellectuals and the arts
Obsession with crime and punishment
Rampant cronyism
Fraudulent electionsSo the US has been on the verge of fascism for the last 20 years or more then. Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@Frank said in US Politics:
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
I don't know how widely it is known that in the USA they have a Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. There is a plaque in there which lists the warning signs of facism.
Powerful and continued nationalism
Disdain for human rights
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
Supremacy of the military
Rampant sexism
Controlled mass media
Obsession with national security
Religion and government intertwined
Corporate power protected
Labour power suppressed
Disdain for intellectuals and the arts
Obsession with crime and punishment
Rampant cronyism
Fraudulent electionsSo the US has been on the verge of fascism for the last 20 years or more then. Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The US checks off most of those since the 70s.
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@Catogrande said in US Politics:
I don't know how widely it is known that in the USA they have a Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. There is a plaque in there which lists the warning signs of facism.
Powerful and continued nationalism
Disdain for human rights
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
Supremacy of the military
Rampant sexism
Controlled mass media
Obsession with national security
Religion and government intertwined
Corporate power protected
Labour power suppressed
Disdain for intellectuals and the arts
Obsession with crime and punishment
Rampant cronyism
Fraudulent electionsWho exact;y came up with that list, because it seems like large box of bollox.
Seems like an exact description of Islam btw.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Donsteppa said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
The dems are largely irrelevant. No power no nothing at the moment. I don't see them making a lazarus like recovery either
The GOP was broadly written off in a similar manner four years ago... these things change quickly across electoral cycles (unless you're Jeremy Corbyn)
The GOP was a punch line in the run up to the primaries. Love him or loath him but Trump is the sole reason they won the white house. None of the other candidates would have generated the following that Trump did
What???
They held congress and the senate.
And Donsteppa is wrong as well. 6 years ago they ascended. Maybe 8 years ago they written off.I was thinking more of the Presidential race, given some of the news network commentary at the time of Obama's margin in 2012... Which in hindsight is a bit weird given the control the Republicans had lower down. All the demographics were going to continue to go against the GOP (growing Hispanic voting base etc etc) and Romney had blown a great chance given the unpopularity of Obamacare etc etc... guess that turned out well for the Democrats in 2016...
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback First off, it's not a plaque, it's a poster that's on display at the memorial, so it's not part of the memorial itself or any of the exhibitions. It's taken from an essay by Laurence Britt dating back to March 2003. It originally appeared here:
but you need to be a subscriber to see it in its original form. It has been reposted many times over the years, including by conspiracy whack jobs like Rense (whose site I won't link to because I don't want to give him the oxygen).
You won't like the rest of Britt's writing either, expeciallythe one about Islamofascism:
I think he's a bit of a lightweight and his writing style is ponderous. A better description of fascism IMO is one by Umberto Eco:
IMO ascribing this to Trump misses the point Eco makes: it's not about the leader, it's about the conditions that allow such a leader to arise and thrive.
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@JC said in US Politics:
IMO ascribing this to Trump misses the point Eco makes: it's not about the leader, it's about the conditions that allow such a leader to arise and thrive.
Yeah - which basically makes everyone's point above valid: let's go back a few decades to make sure we understand how things got this fucked up. I'm not as well-read as @JC but its pretty clear that the root cause isn't Obama, its not Democrats, Bushes, Clintons, or Republicans. Its the system, and they all contributed to it in varying degrees.
Saw a video compilation of Bannon today and thought "wow, what a fucking whacko"
This kind of religious rhetoric - countries "bequeathed" and "divine providence" - is the language of an extremist.
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@NTA said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
IMO ascribing this to Trump misses the point Eco makes: it's not about the leader, it's about the conditions that allow such a leader to arise and thrive.
Yeah - which basically makes everyone's point above valid: let's go back a few decades to make sure we understand how things got this fucked up. I'm not as well-read as @JC but its pretty clear that the root cause isn't Obama, its not Democrats, Bushes, Clintons, or Republicans. Its the system, and they all contributed to it in varying degrees.
Saw a video compilation of Bannon today and thought "wow, what a fucking whacko"
This kind of religious rhetoric - countries "bequeathed" and "divine providence" - is the language of an extremist.
What is interesting about this post is that I took a completely and utterly different meaning from that video than what you did. He was clearly just taken out of context form soundbites.
I actually watched the whole clip where the 'bequeathed' statement was made was actually in reference to being bequeathed by the founding fathers, not god.
And as we all know I already agreed with his positions on the spread of Islam and how dangerous the ideology is. Just as we know that you dont.I a m starting to just assume a more simplistic first test for 'fucktardness' and 'evil'.. if someone is arguing against free speech... they are fucktards, not matter what. The only exception being directly encouraging violence. Islam fails my test in the most awesome of fashions.
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What a few of you are clearly insinuating (without actually wanting to say it) is that while the conditions for fascism might not have been caused by Trump, Trump might be the guy to take advantage of it. I call bullshit.
The only 'fascism' is currently coming from the left. (suppression of free speech, violence and general hysterics gleefully whipped up by MSM).
Trump is a threat to the 'comfortable' neo-liberal status quo for certain groups on society. He wants a big change in direction. Whenever this happens, there will always be massive resistance.
Here are a few of the ways he is pissing different groups off.
- America first trade policy
- Anti Islamic immigration
- Aggressive defender of Judeo-Christian values (look at Bannon for that)
- Does not pander to minorities or women and has in fact empowered "white trash" (can't have that)
- Highly traditional alpha male (contrast with Obama or Trudeau)
- Hostile mass media looking to pounce of anything.
- Hostile universities.
- The WALL
- Uncompromising, dynamic, unpredictable, aggressive, authoritative.....................
I could go on but it might stress a few of you snowflakes out
My brother has Trump derangement syndrome. A formerly rational guy. He sent me that link of the NZ Herald about how Trump might be planning a coup. Seriously, think about that. This is being reported in NZ's biggest newspaper. The world has lost its mind.
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http://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-russia-ties-michael-flynn-dossier-2017-2
Russian ties to Trump campaign, the continuing story
Interesting back story around Putin
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-vladimir-putin-rose-to-power-2017-2
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@Frank said in US Politics:
What a few of you are clearly insinuating (without actually wanting to say it)
That's implying.
- Highly traditional alpha male (contrast with Obama or Trudeau)
I cringe every time someone says "alpha male"
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@dK said in US Politics:
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-russia-ties-michael-flynn-dossier-2017-2
Russian ties to Trump campaign, the continuing story
Interesting back story around Putin
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-vladimir-putin-rose-to-power-2017-2
Wrong thread, your post should be in the conspiracy theory thread. That article has the most crucial aspect of a good conspiracy theory, it spends most of its time trying to mix correlation with causation. It should be in a text book on conspiracy theories.
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@antipodean
Perhaps should I say dominant?/ I don't know. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Yeah, it amazes me that there are so many people from right across the political spectrum who fail to see that the strongest bulwark against fascism is the full and free flow of ideas. The attitude that "I know best and anybody who disagrees needs to be silenced" is IMO the seed from which intolerance grows, and its fruit is totalitarianism. People need to be able to call it out early and loud without fear of losing their livelihoods or their liberties.
While the orthodox definitions of fascism position it as a solely right-wing phenomenon (Robert Paxton has authored probably the definitive book on it, The Anatomy of Fascism) I think there's an clear palingenesis of the fascist tendency to ban what you don't agree with, and it's now as prevalent on the hard left as it has historically been on the ultra-conservative right. Hate-speech laws, which were well-meaning in their conception, have served to encourage the suppression of rationalism (Anthony Lewis's "Freedom for the Thought That We Hate" is outstanding on this and worryingly prescient), with an insistence on moral relativism and that is hard to fathom. And it's hard not to see an irony in the Trump administration's use of distortions and lies as tools against the type of people who deny such obvious binary truths as biological gender.
My own view is that when it comes to fascism the left-right thing is a bit of a red herring. I doubt the people in the socialist utopia that is North Korea are appreciably happier than those who lived under Franco. There's no such thing as benign suppression of people or ideas.
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@JC said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Yeah, it amazes me that there are so many people from right across the political spectrum who fail to see that the strongest bulwark against fascism is the full and free flow of ideas. The attitude that "I know best and anybody who disagrees needs to be silenced" is IMO the seed from which intolerance grows, and its fruit is totalitarianism. People need to be able to call it out early and loud without fear of losing their livelihoods or their liberties.
While the orthodox definitions of fascism position it as a solely right-wing phenomenon (Robert Paxton has authored probably the definitive book on it, The Anatomy of Fascism) I think there's an clear palingenesis of the fascist tendency to ban what you don't agree with, and it's now as prevalent on the hard left as it has historically been on the ultra-conservative right. Hate-speech laws, which were well-meaning in their conception, have served to encourage the suppression of rationalism (Anthony Lewis's "Freedom for the Thought That We Hate" is outstanding on this and worryingly prescient), with an insistence on moral relativism and that is hard to fathom. And it's hard not to see an irony in the Trump administration's use of distortions and lies as tools against the type of people who deny such obvious binary truths as biological gender.
My own view is that when it comes to fascism the left-right thing is a bit of a red herring. I doubt the people in the socialist utopia that is North Korea are appreciably happier than those who lived under Franco. There's no such thing as benign suppression of people or ideas.
Great post. I am struggling to think of any real causes or people on the hard right that still try to suppress other ideas. I am more of the school of thought that free speech is VASTLY more likely to be attacked from the right than the left, that is also why so many classic liberals now identify as right wing instead of left. There really is no liberalism in the modern left.
When was the last time a right wing movement silenced anything?
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@NTA said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
Then again, if it all goes to shit for the Republicans under Trump then the Dems will win big time, regardless of who they put up
And this is the thing now: the middle people don't vote FOR someone, they vote AGAINST someone.
That's always been true.
@NTA said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback Swing of over 13% in 2012 to win government. Labor went from 51 seats to 7. Three years later they won government again with 44 seats and a swing of 14%
They're predicting a swing of about 12% against Barnett in WA in the upcoming state election.
This is two-party politics now I guess. One term governments might just become the norm, or hung Parliament situations.
Can't help but believe this is a symptom of the online era; people don't have any patience anymore. Instant gratification and a 24 hour news cycle means people are entertained by items that make sfa difference and expect complex problems to be resolved within an election cycle, often with a hostile senate.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
When was the last time a right wing movement silenced anything?
US Politics