Aaron Smith
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@antipodean said in Aaron Smith:
@kiwiwomble said in Aaron Smith:
we probably need to stop comparing all the other halfbacks to smith, they should try and get to his level but probably shouldn't be punished for not getting there
Disagree. Aaron Smith shows what happens when true professionals work on their game. Every other fluffybunny in New Zealand wearing 9 on their back can't fucking pass and they're clearly not working on it. For some reason their coaches aren't ripping them a new arsehole about it either, but I guess these days you have to create an environment where players want to improve...
Look at someone like Roe. Gets promoted up because he is a good sniper and has an eye for a gap. I wouldn't say that his passing is laboured but it is merely adequate. Saw little between pre-season and end of season that he has improved that area despite being in professional training for months without much game prep.
Not knocking the kid and he is probably doing what he is asked to. Just an example where coaches don't seem to be pushing this aspect despite it being the major skill that is required for a fast international game. -
@crucial said in Aaron Smith:
@antipodean said in Aaron Smith:
@kiwiwomble said in Aaron Smith:
we probably need to stop comparing all the other halfbacks to smith, they should try and get to his level but probably shouldn't be punished for not getting there
Disagree. Aaron Smith shows what happens when true professionals work on their game. Every other fluffybunny in New Zealand wearing 9 on their back can't fucking pass and they're clearly not working on it. For some reason their coaches aren't ripping them a new arsehole about it either, but I guess these days you have to create an environment where players want to improve...
Look at someone like Roe. Gets promoted up because he is a good sniper and has an eye for a gap. I wouldn't say that his passing is laboured but it is merely adequate. Saw little between pre-season and end of season that he has improved that area despite being in professional training for months without much game prep.
Not knocking the kid and he is probably doing what he is asked to. Just an example where coaches don't seem to be pushing this aspect despite it being the major skill that is required for a fast international game.Roe is still the best at the moment. Bring him into all blacks camp to learn of the master, can only be good for him
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@mackerzzzz said in Aaron Smith:
@crucial said in Aaron Smith:
@antipodean said in Aaron Smith:
@kiwiwomble said in Aaron Smith:
we probably need to stop comparing all the other halfbacks to smith, they should try and get to his level but probably shouldn't be punished for not getting there
Disagree. Aaron Smith shows what happens when true professionals work on their game. Every other fluffybunny in New Zealand wearing 9 on their back can't fucking pass and they're clearly not working on it. For some reason their coaches aren't ripping them a new arsehole about it either, but I guess these days you have to create an environment where players want to improve...
Look at someone like Roe. Gets promoted up because he is a good sniper and has an eye for a gap. I wouldn't say that his passing is laboured but it is merely adequate. Saw little between pre-season and end of season that he has improved that area despite being in professional training for months without much game prep.
Not knocking the kid and he is probably doing what he is asked to. Just an example where coaches don't seem to be pushing this aspect despite it being the major skill that is required for a fast international game.Roe is still the best at the moment. Bring him into all blacks camp to learn of the master, can only be good for him
Again, I'm not knocking him, he is a good prospect but I fail to see any more than promise at the moment. His biggest USP is sniping, something that gets rarer as you go up the ranks.
I just can't see why he is being talked up so much. Give him a little time (and a work on of speed and accuracy of pass).
If any young player looked like they may have spark this season it was Roigard. I would certainly be looking at incentivizing him by letting him know that he has eyes on him from up high. -
i find the core skills development in rugby codes to be pretty ordinary in the modern game. I reckon most players are promoted based on having a couple of things they do better than others, mostly physical (bigger, quicker, stronger) and the obvious skills that need developing just never improve.
I wonder if modern sports science has something to do with that? The capping of training loads meaning there isn't the time for that stuff between all teh team stuff they already do (ie defensive patterns, which i bet are an enormous part of a players week).
Also, it shouldn't be the job of the national coaches to develop core skills in players
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@mariner4life and thats a thing where you get these big strong fast kids identified early, and pushed through the ranks without properly developing thier core sklls, but by the same token, thes eplayers probably have smoke blown up thier arses and not told they need to go work on this or that as well, so some never will.
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@mariner4life said in Aaron Smith:
i find the core skills development in rugby codes to be pretty ordinary in the modern game. I reckon most players are promoted based on having a couple of things they do better than others, mostly physical (bigger, quicker, stronger) and the obvious skills that need developing just never improve.
I wonder if modern sports science has something to do with that? The capping of training loads meaning there isn't the time for that stuff between all teh team stuff they already do (ie defensive patterns, which i bet are an enormous part of a players week).
Also, it shouldn't be the job of the national coaches to develop core skills in players
Amen to that. Our best evers are all guys that went the extra mile themselves outside of the team training. From McCaw's extra fitness work to DCs endless kicking drills and Smith's total professional package.
There is no substitute for muscle memory. Practice a skill over and over until it becomes your level of ordinary. -
@r-l said in Aaron Smith:
@taniwharugby this thread was inspired by Roy in the disabled toilet wasn't it!?
I actually really like Aaron Smith.Nice try @R-L but you dont have to worry, you're a lifer with the Hijack Fernie..
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i am not for a second saying these skills aren't worked on. i just find it astounding that so many players go their whole career with an obvious skill flaw that just never develops.
TJP has been an international halfback for years, and can anyone really say his passing was better last year than in any other year of his career
it's what makes the development of Ma'a Nonu so extraordinary
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@mariner4life said in Aaron Smith:
i am not for a second saying these skills aren't worked on. i just find it astounding that so many players go their whole career with an obvious skill flaw that just never develops.
TJP has been an international halfback for years, and can anyone really say his passing was better last year than in any other year of his career
it's what makes the development of Ma'a Nonu so extraordinary
That's why I love Ma'a. He became the model of the perfect 12. Every year he must have started his pre-season wanting to be better than the year before, and it showed.
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I’d wager these guys are practicing their passing all the time but it’s bloody hard to be anywhere near Smith level. All the training in the world is no guarantee of firing off inch perfect missiles from both sides in the heat of battles. One expression I heard once was being good enough to knock the cigarette out of a sparrows mouth.
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@antipodean I think his partnership with Conrad also helped drive some of that development. Clear as day that Nonu put in the hard work though. I think Nonu was a pretty early adopter of stuff like yoga as well? One of those guys always looking for that extra edge or 1% to add to their game.
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@mariner4life said in Aaron Smith:
i am not for a second saying these skills aren't worked on. i just find it astounding that so many players go their whole career with an obvious skill flaw that just never develops.
Completely agree.
The example that comes to mind for me is Rieko Ioane and kicking. He debuted for the Blues in 2016 and the ABs in 2017 and he has developed exactly zero kicking game. How is it that he has not developed the skill even a little bit despite being in these set ups for 5 or so years? Kicking for a winger and centre in the modern game is close to a must have and he simply does not have the skill.
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@paekakboyz said in Aaron Smith:
One of those guys always looking for that extra edge or 1% to add to their game.
I cant recall who it was, but Craig Dowd springs to mind and the time he was an AB/Blues fits with the memory...anyways, ballet is what he was doing, not ballet for ballet, but ballet training for the strength and balance.
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@paekakboyz said in Aaron Smith:
@antipodean I think his partnership with Conrad also helped drive some of that development. Clear as day that Nonu put in the hard work though. I think Nonu was a pretty early adopter of stuff like yoga as well? One of those guys always looking for that extra edge or 1% to add to their game.
agreed, i think partnering with Smith at the canes and the AB's gave Nonu the confidence to work on his game knowing exactly what the guy outside him was going to do
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@kiwimurph said in Aaron Smith:
@mariner4life said in Aaron Smith:
i am not for a second saying these skills aren't worked on. i just find it astounding that so many players go their whole career with an obvious skill flaw that just never develops.
Completely agree.
The example that comes to mind for me is Rieko Ioane and kicking. He debuted for the Blues in 2016 and the ABs in 2017 and he has developed exactly zero kicking game. How is it that he has not developed the skill even a little bit despite being in these set ups for 5 or so years? Kicking for a winger and centre in the modern game is close to a must have and he simply does not have the skill.
He hasn't graduated past 'holding the ball in two hands'?
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@mariner4life said in Aaron Smith:
i find the core skills development in rugby codes to be pretty ordinary in the modern game. I reckon most players are promoted based on having a couple of things they do better than others, mostly physical (bigger, quicker, stronger) and the obvious skills that need developing just never improve.
I wonder if modern sports science has something to do with that? The capping of training loads meaning there isn't the time for that stuff between all teh team stuff they already do (ie defensive patterns, which i bet are an enormous part of a players week).
Also, it shouldn't be the job of the national coaches to develop core skills in players
Reminds me of Kevin Senio (in terms of people working on core skills), that guy used to do an insane amount of passing drills over and above the rest of the team, I remember an interview with him talking about it. He certainly wasnt big, but those core skills elevated his status.
