The State of the Game
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@donsteppa said in The State of the Game:
I might buy more into the 'we're just getting older and grumpier' line of thought if I was also falling out of love with cricket. But that's definitely not the case...
I think there has been a long term trend of people stopping playing rugby earlier than they used to though, and maybe that all starts to accumulate for rugby interest over time. I can remember Colin Meads quietly lamenting that in an article around the mid-2000's. (The story had him mentioning a bloke nearby propping up the club bar 'while he should still be out there playing first')
I keep meaning to look up some of the player number stats for the various sports, especially at junior level. The growing weight of dementia-related stories like Carl Hayman's might start to bite sometime. Though participation in women's rugby seems to be growing.
Spectator numbers, at least in NZ, are also telling below Super Rugby level. Up until about three years ago I was determined that we had to (somehow) do a massive upgrade to Tauranga Domain. There are still upgrades that should be done there to facilities, lights, etc.
But, looking at last years NPC crowds in places like Waikato Stadium and Forsyth Barr... would you really want to invest tens of millions of dollars (or more, given construction prices) in substantially bigger capacity than Tauranga Domain in most places at the moment - unless you were a Super Rugby franchise base? I miss the days of massive crowds wherever the Ranfurly Shield was.
Yep. Massive issue.
I follow a page on FB that plays old NPC games from the 90s and the crowds were always massive, a far cry from what you get these days.
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Yeah. I think we've branched into a seperate issue here.
You have the "State of the Game" topic. What impacts rules, refereeing etc are having on the enjoyability of rugby.
Then you have a seperate issue, which way predates this, the massive decline of rugby's popularity in NZ both as a spectator sport, TV sport, and playing numbers. Could probably do seperate branches of this foe all the SH powers.
For NZ it is the connected symptoms of Super Rugby:
- reducing the numbers of teams to 5
- Once all grounds became floodlight by about 1999, the removal of day rugby (as only 2 home NZ games per weekend)
- the Ghettoising into pay TV
- the ghettoising into after kids bedtime.
After S12 formed we didn't bring the next generation along.
And, in NZ, we have totally destroyed FTA television, you guys overseas probably don't realise how bad it is, and there is no 'shared culture' in NZ.When I first heard the "Rugby, Racing and Beer" stereotype when I was in my late teens , maybe in late 80s or early 90s, I scoffed that racing could ever have been a big thing.
You can draw some comparisons with racing in NZ compared to racing in Australia. NZ ghettosied into Trackside channel (but was still FTA if you had the right aerial). where as in Australia while they created Sky Racing at the same time - you still have the big carnival events on the main FTA channels.
In Australia the strength of CH9 and CH7 over the years, with Foxtel as just the 'cherry on top' option - is just so different from NZ. Has served their 2 main football leagues and cricket very well.
These mistakes weren't obvious to me at the time; too few teams, too deep and high quality a competition, nigh time ghetto, pay tv ghetto. So, I have no blame to fling.
Unfortunately. When we started noticing the decline. We double down. Allowed SANZAR partners to increase but no desire ourselves. Filled the NPC space with more All Blacks games. We've created a crap top-down system where it is 'too high quality' that we rest players in SR and rest players for tests. It's a bit like the top-down model of the ODI glut of the 90's and early 00's that de-railed international cricket. Making it all the same small player pool appearing all the time but at only 80% effort or care all the time.
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@rapido said in The State of the Game:
Yeah. I think we've branched into a seperate issue here.
You have the "State of the Game" topic. What impacts rules, refereeing etc are having on the enjoyability of rugby.
Then you have a seperate issue, which way predates this, the massive decline of rugby's popularity in NZ both as a spectator sport, TV sport, and playing numbers. Could probably do seperate branches of this foe all the SH powers.
For NZ it is the connected symptoms of Super Rugby:
- reducing the numbers of teams to 5
- Once all grounds became floodlight by about 1999, the removal of day rugby (as only 2 home NZ games per weekend)
- the Ghettoising into pay TV
- the ghettoising into after kids bedtime.
After S12 formed we didn't bring the next generation along.
And, in NZ, we have totally destroyed FTA television, you guys overseas probably don't realise how bad it is, and there is no 'shared culture' in NZ.When I first heard the "Rugby, Racing and Beer" stereotype when I was in my late teens , maybe in late 80s or early 90s, I scoffed that racing could ever have been a big thing.
You can draw some comparisons with racing in NZ compared to racing in Australia. NZ ghettosied into Trackside channel (but was still FTA if you had the right aerial). where as in Australia while they created Sky Racing at the same time - you still have the big carnival events on the main FTA channels.
In Australia the strength of CH9 and CH7 over the years, with Foxtel as just the 'cherry on top' option - is just so different from NZ. Has served their 2 main football leagues and cricket very well.
Not two things at all for me. I will only occasionally go to games now, if part of another social reason or watching family play. I used to be quite happy to go to the odd game by myself or just my my son but now I get so frustrated with the stop start nature due to scrum management, refs taking their time, water carriers etc that I can't be bothered. Watch any game from 15 years ago compared to now and time how long it takes for a half to play out.
Go to a 7:30 kickoff game and you're getting back to your car about 10pm -
@mn5 said in The State of the Game:
I follow a page on FB that plays old NPC games from the 90s and the crowds were always massive, a far cry from what you get these days.
The NPC was the only show in town for a long time and seldom broadcast live on TV, even when it was FTA on TVNZ, so if you wanted to watch the games you went to them. Combined with afternoon kickoffs, and people's ability to watch games live from the comfort of their sofa now, and it is a different time.
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As a bit of a joke theory.
Honestly. If you are home on a wet weekend and you feel like watching some sport, but only have FTA TV. You can watch Castrol Motorsport 52 weekends a year, or a Neighbours omnibus. A few years ago I think you could watch Castrol Motorsport or if you didn't fancy that switch to the other former giant of FTA TV and watch CRC Motorsport.
No shortage of young pricks in NZ in fast cars hooning about.
I don't know when I've last seen 6 young guys in a park playing a game of pick-up touch rugby. Probably 20 years ago in London ... Maybe it still happens in the more polynesian parts of town?
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@rapido there must be some good fishing shows on tv
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@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:
@rapido there must be some good fishing shows on tv
Yes,there are actually.
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@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Full houses at Test level up North
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@mikethesnow said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Full houses at Test level up North
Posh Scottish twits always love a wee jaunt to Murrayfield
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Ha this can go in here as it is an unintended consequence of one of the recent (stupid) rule changes...
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@taniwharugby smart. hell of a strike too
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@taniwharugby perhaps don't drop kick it straight to the opposition first five.....
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@kiwimurph fair point, but given we know plenty of players practice them...
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@taniwharugby said in The State of the Game:
Ha this can go in here as it is an unintended consequence of one of the recent (stupid) rule changes...
Got no problem with that
The defensive team stopped the offensive team from scoring, they didn’t turnover the ball.
There was always a sense of inevitability about the 5m scrum for holding the ball up over the line. 9/10 it led to a try and/or a card for the defensive team.
If the defensive team kicks badly and/or the offensive team kicks superbly, why shouldn’t that be rewarded?
After all, less than a minute earlier the offensive team almost scored a try.
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@mikethesnow it's a stupid rule, i really don't like it.
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@sparky said in The State of the Game:
Last time Australia, South Africa and New Zealand all lost on the same day was in November 2002.
I was just about to say this has not been a good weekend for the traditional SH powerhouses.
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@antipodean said in The State of the Game:
@sparky said in The State of the Game:
Last time Australia, South Africa and New Zealand all lost on the same day was in November 2002.
I was just about to say this has not been a good weekend for the traditional SH powerhouses.
Some good Rugby on show tho.
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