The State of the Game
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Is there a grumpy old man thread - if not, I nominate this one to become the official grumpy old man thread.
I'm sure somebody has the stats - but I have feeling that at 37 I am one of the younger guys on the board, if not younger at least younger than the average. Boards like these are really an gen x/early millenials thing.
There are problems with the game, but there always been issues, what I think is happening is that we are all just getting older and further aways from actually playing the game. One of the great things about rugby is that most fans are former players as having experience of playing makes following a pretty chaotic game a lot easier.
The game is not more broken now than it was 10,20, or whenever years ago, we are just getting older and grumpier.
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This thread is actually the only one called Grumpy Old Man, but there are many grumpy old men threads on the Fern.
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4236/grumpy-old-man
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@sidbarret said in The State of the Game:
The game is not more broken now than it was 10,20, or whenever years ago, we are just getting older and grumpier.
I don't think the game itself is broken, just the officiating and constant interruptions from TMO's has become such a big pain in the arse
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@sidbarret said in The State of the Game:
Is there a grumpy old man thread - if not, I nominate this one to become the official grumpy old man thread.
I'm sure somebody has the stats - but I have feeling that at 37 I am one of the younger guys on the board, if not younger at least younger than the average. Boards like these are really an gen x/early millenials thing.
There are problems with the game, but there always been issues, what I think is happening is that we are all just getting older and further aways from actually playing the game. One of the great things about rugby is that most fans are former players as having experience of playing makes following a pretty chaotic game a lot easier.
The game is not more broken now than it was 10,20, or whenever years ago, we are just getting older and grumpier.
Are you saying 20 somethings are too cool for the fern ? No way.
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@sidbarret said in The State of the Game:
I'm sure somebody has the stats - but I have feeling that at 37 I am one of the younger guys on the board, if not younger at least younger than the average. Boards like these are really an gen x/early millenials thing.
There are problems with the game, but there always been issues, what I think is happening is that we are all just getting older and further aways from actually playing the game. One of the great things about rugby is that most fans are former players as having experience of playing makes following a pretty chaotic game a lot easier.
The game is not more broken now than it was 10,20, or whenever years ago, we are just getting older and grumpier.
I disagree.
If that were so, you'd expect a typical fan trajectory to ease as people hit their 40s. That's not happening - observationally, my father in law (who played to a fairly high level) was a good old rugby follower, loved attending AB tests and games, watched it all on TV.
He just can't be bothered any more - hardly watches world cup games; he's just lost interest. Older blokes used to be a core audience - decades of rugby watching experience; I think they are falling away from the game.
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I might buy more into the 'we're just getting older and grumpier' line of thought if I was also falling out of love with cricket. But that's definitely not the case...
I think there has been a long term trend of people stopping playing rugby earlier than they used to though, and maybe that all starts to accumulate for rugby interest over time. I can remember Colin Meads quietly lamenting that in an article around the mid-2000's. (The story had him mentioning a bloke nearby propping up the club bar 'while he should still be out there playing first')
I keep meaning to look up some of the player number stats for the various sports, especially at junior level. The growing weight of dementia-related stories like Carl Hayman's might start to bite sometime. Though participation in women's rugby seems to be growing.
Spectator numbers, at least in NZ, are also telling below Super Rugby level. Up until about three years ago I was determined that we had to (somehow) do a massive upgrade to Tauranga Domain. There are still upgrades that should be done there to facilities, lights, etc.
But, looking at last years NPC crowds in places like Waikato Stadium and Forsyth Barr... would you really want to invest tens of millions of dollars (or more, given construction prices) in substantially bigger capacity than Tauranga Domain in most places at the moment - unless you were a Super Rugby franchise base? I miss the days of massive crowds wherever the Ranfurly Shield was.
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@victor-meldrew I think the level of officiating is at what feels like an all time low, which will be in part to plenty of rules having wide interpretations, but the TMO is probably the bigger issue, and probably the easiest to fix by reducing thier scope to only speaking when asked a question or highlighting grubbery.
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@nzzp interesting - my Old Man (whose touching 70 and also played to a reasonable standard) just told me that he’s enjoying rugby as much now as he did when he was playing in the late 70s/early 80s.
But a big part of that is that scrums are a serious contest again and of course an old hooker would love that.
That’s an aside though, like others I think the TMO is largely a blight on the game. Especially as it seems largely to be driven by the home broadcaster feeding tenuous infractions to help their team.
Get rid of that nonsense, ruck goblins going offside to kick the ball to the back of a silly snake and sort the ruck out by stripping most of the rules out so that a ruck only exists when at least one player from each side ON THEIR FEET are bound over the ball. Go off your feet and you don’t count.
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@taniwharugby said in The State of the Game:
@victor-meldrew I think the level of officiating is at what feels like an all time low, which will be in part to plenty of rules having wide interpretations, but the TMO is probably the bigger issue, and probably the easiest to fix by reducing thier scope to only speaking when asked a question or highlighting grubbery.
A Nigel Owens Test was one to saviour, Saturdays wasn't.
Some Ref's are great at managing the TMO and have the confidence to make decisions there and then. Others aren't and you can understand why they want to get it right and avoid being crucified for getting it wrong.
Something that can be fixed by tweaking the TMO's role?
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@victor-meldrew said in The State of the Game:
Some Ref's are great at managing the TMO and have the confidence to make decisions there and then. Others aren't and you can understand why they want to get it right and avoid being crucified for getting it wrong.
some, like Gardner get hung out to dry if they get it right too...the Red Card when BB was taken in the air by a French player.
Who'd be a ref these days?
I think the TMO is easy to fix by them only being able to rule on stuff when the ref asks for thier input, or grub acts. If they see dangerous play the ref missed, then they send it to the citing commissioner, because if it is dangerous and the ref missed, I'd say on balance of probability, it is going to be a marginal one anyway, so better to pass it onto the Citing Commissioner to make a decision without the emotion and time constraint of getting on with the game and fans bored of seeing 20 replays from 2 or 3 angles angles.
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@taniwharugby said in The State of the Game:
@victor-meldrew said in The State of the Game:
Some Ref's are great at managing the TMO and have the confidence to make decisions there and then. Others aren't and you can understand why they want to get it right and avoid being crucified for getting it wrong.
some, like Gardner get hung out to dry if they get it right too...the Red Card when BB was taken in the air by a French player.
Who'd be a ref these days?
I think the TMO is easy to fix by them only being able to rule on stuff when the ref asks for thier input, or grub acts. If they see dangerous play the ref missed, then they send it to the citing commissioner, because if it is dangerous and the ref missed, I'd say on balance of probability, it is going to be a marginal one anyway, so better to pass it onto the Citing Commissioner to make a decision without the emotion and time constraint of getting on with the game and fans bored of seeing 20 replays from 2 or 3 angles angles.
Why we don't just put a report system in place is beyond me. Situations like the Taylor one can be "Let's get someone to look at this after the game, penalty green, play on"
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@crucial said in The State of the Game:
@taniwharugby said in The State of the Game:
@victor-meldrew said in The State of the Game:
Some Ref's are great at managing the TMO and have the confidence to make decisions there and then. Others aren't and you can understand why they want to get it right and avoid being crucified for getting it wrong.
some, like Gardner get hung out to dry if they get it right too...the Red Card when BB was taken in the air by a French player.
Who'd be a ref these days?
I think the TMO is easy to fix by them only being able to rule on stuff when the ref asks for thier input, or grub acts. If they see dangerous play the ref missed, then they send it to the citing commissioner, because if it is dangerous and the ref missed, I'd say on balance of probability, it is going to be a marginal one anyway, so better to pass it onto the Citing Commissioner to make a decision without the emotion and time constraint of getting on with the game and fans bored of seeing 20 replays from 2 or 3 angles angles.
Why we don't just put a report system in place is beyond me. Situations like the Taylor one can be "Let's get someone to look at this after the game, penalty green, play on"
Virtue signalling. Have to be seen to 'do something', even if that's not realllly that effective.
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If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
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@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
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the stupid part of Saturday was, we had incidental head contact by a tackler that had zero effect on the tackled player result in a yellow
We had incidental head contact by a ball runner that resulted in a player leaving for the entire game for no thought of a sanction.
The 2nd is fair enough. The first?
The fucking stupid thing about all of this is, in all the long years i played, i suffered many more head injuries as the tackler than than the tackled player.
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@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
yeah, sure, you're totally right, the Super Rugby crowds in NZ were simply heaving in 2019. As for the NPC crowds...
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@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
yeah, sure, you're totally right, the Super Rugby crowds in NZ were simply heaving in 2019. As for the NPC crowds...
If you are talking NZ domestic game crowds, then to be serious, overkill of rugby, boredom of super-whatever & price of tickets.
The club game here is thriving again after a year out.
Although of all the criticisms I have of Pommy rugby (and there are quire a few) the fans not turning up to games is not one of them.
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@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
yeah, sure, you're totally right, the Super Rugby crowds in NZ were simply heaving in 2019. As for the NPC crowds...
If you are talking NZ domestic game crowds, then to be serious, overkill of rugby, boredom of super-whatever & price of tickets.
The club game here is thriving again after a year out.
Although of all the criticisms I have of Pommy rugby (and there are quire a few) the fans not turning up to games is not one of them.
I don't live there. i don't watch much of their club stuff, i can't comment. But it's a scary thought because if it continues to thrive NZ rugby will end up where it belongs, a plucky under-resourced battler.
It's pretty fucked down here because of all the shit you are talking about, and the player drain. And the coaching drain.
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@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
yeah, sure, you're totally right, the Super Rugby crowds in NZ were simply heaving in 2019. As for the NPC crowds...
I'd say there are two issue that compound that.
- Timing of fixtures. Rugby should be a daylight game.
- It's not an event. People turn up because it's the place to be and have fun.
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@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
@majorrage said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
If rugby is so good now why does no one go?
Covid, basically.
Stadiums are packed up here now that Covid is over.
(Colossal bullshit, but thats the story of Covid)
yeah, sure, you're totally right, the Super Rugby crowds in NZ were simply heaving in 2019. As for the NPC crowds...
If you are talking NZ domestic game crowds, then to be serious, overkill of rugby, boredom of super-whatever & price of tickets.
The club game here is thriving again after a year out.
Although of all the criticisms I have of Pommy rugby (and there are quire a few) the fans not turning up to games is not one of them.
personally i dont think its the total number of games thats killing the interest....its all the different competitions so too much importance is put on each game, i would rather one 21 game comp than three 7 game comps where if you lose one or two games your already on the back foot
