All Blacks 2022
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That would make for a fun yearly series, here one year and away the next.
We should also send the AB XV to the states etc at the end of year, and have the top team play fewer of those shittier tests.
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When was the last time NZR assembled an All Blacks XV/JAB side?
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@duluth said in All Blacks 2021:
When was the last time NZR assembled an All Blacks XV/JAB side?
2017? v France XV
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The JABs were very short-lived. Foster and Cooper were the co-coaches in 2005-07 and 2009.
Hurricanes head coach Colin Cooper and his Chiefs counterpart Ian Foster have been reappointed as coaches of the Junior All Blacks.
Cooper and Foster have been at the helm as the Junior All Blacks have remained unbeaten since being reinstituted in 2005 as New Zealand's second national team.
They coached the team to a 2-0 series win against Australia A in 2005, the team won the inaugural Pacific Five Nations tournament in 2006 and then the expanded Pacific Nations Cup in 2007. The Junior All Blacks will this year contest the Pacific Nations Cup against Samoa, Japan, Tonga and Fiji.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
That would make for a fun yearly series, here one year and away the next.
We should also send the AB XV to the states etc at the end of year, and have the top team play fewer of those shittier tests.
Yep, and it would be good to have a real second tier team again instead of shoe-horning the Maori to be it.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
That would make for a fun yearly series, here one year and away the next.
We should also send the AB XV to the states etc at the end of year, and have the top team play fewer of those shittier tests.
Yep, and it would be good to have a real second tier team again instead of shoe-horning the Maori to be it.
I think we have also been careful around having a 'proper' second team due to eligibility rules. Playing for the official 2nds locked you in and players weren't too keen on that (understandably). An early trial selection and discard could really fuck up your future.
That has been slightly alleviated with the new rules.
Last time I looked the JABs were still our nominated team but I think that you can't pretend that is the case if you regularly play a AB XV as development. WR would step in and make us change the designation I suspect. -
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
That would make for a fun yearly series, here one year and away the next.
We should also send the AB XV to the states etc at the end of year, and have the top team play fewer of those shittier tests.
Yep, and it would be good to have a real second tier team again instead of shoe-horning the Maori to be it.
I think we have also been careful around having a 'proper' second team due to eligibility rules. Playing for the official 2nds locked you in and players weren't too keen on that (understandably). An early trial selection and discard could really fuck up your future.
That has been slightly alleviated with the new rules.
Last time I looked the JABs were still our nominated team but I think that you can't pretend that is the case if you regularly play a AB XV as development. WR would step in and make us change the designation I suspect.We can declare which ever second team we want, within reason, I think. And can take it off, I wonder if NZR has already removed it
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@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2021:
@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2021:
That would make for a fun yearly series, here one year and away the next.
We should also send the AB XV to the states etc at the end of year, and have the top team play fewer of those shittier tests.
Yep, and it would be good to have a real second tier team again instead of shoe-horning the Maori to be it.
I think we have also been careful around having a 'proper' second team due to eligibility rules. Playing for the official 2nds locked you in and players weren't too keen on that (understandably). An early trial selection and discard could really fuck up your future.
That has been slightly alleviated with the new rules.
Last time I looked the JABs were still our nominated team but I think that you can't pretend that is the case if you regularly play a AB XV as development. WR would step in and make us change the designation I suspect.We can declare which ever second team we want, within reason, I think. And can take it off, I wonder if NZR has already removed it
You can change it once a year I think. My point was that if we nominated the JABs then never assembled them but had an obvious regular pathway team in an AB XV then I'd say we'd be asked to change otherwise we are just taking the piss.
Edit: Just found the WR list for 2021 and we didn't nominate a 'next senior team'
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Edit: Seems legit.
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Probably a good replacement. I've always rated Fox.
Personally think Schmidt is an arsehole, but that's a personal opinion developed as a 13 yo.
He's probably quite good at rugby though.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
Probably a good replacement. I've always rated Fox.
Personally think Schmidt is an arsehole, but that's a personal opinion developed as a 13 yo.
He's probably quite good at rugby though.
How did you know him as a 13yr old? I ask because that's almost exactly when I came to know him!
Edit - I think you're a little older than me - my 13yr+ old experience started c. 1990
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Great work securing Schmidty, is it just as selector?
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
Probably a good replacement. I've always rated Fox.
Personally think Schmidt is an arsehole, but that's a personal opinion developed as a 13 yo.
He's probably quite good at rugby though.
How did you know him as a 13yr old? I ask because that's almost exactly when I came to know him!
Edit - I think you're a little older than me - my 13yr+ old experience started c. 1990
Attended 1981 Scout Jamboree in Hastings. He was patrol leader. (Patrols were mixed up from across 'Tararua' (essentially 'Bush' Woodville, Pahiatua, Eketahuna) and Southern Hawkes Bay ( Dannevirke etc.))
(As an aside I recall playing cricket with his brother Andrew who was a nice chap.)
I was was the youngest in patrol (i.e. tent), barely old enough to attend, and therefore the butt of everybody's jokes.
Which was fun.
So he shall always be a piston wristed gibbon for not stopping that.
Not that I hold a grudge...
Mind you he would have been 16, so just a kid himself. Seemed like an adult to me at the time.
Jamboree was awesome though.
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@gt12 That is great news!
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Fuck me drunk.
In the third quarter of the French test, the All Blacks ran a set-piece play that involved Sam Cane peeling off the lineout maul and looking for options inside and out. He opted to carry and set up the first ruck. The supporting All Blacks pack then proceeded to pick-and-go relentlessly at the fringes of the ruck phase-after-phase. They finally found the gain line. They finally found continuity and control. They finally went forward, would you believe it. They worked down to the French goal line before Aaron Smith played two passes, the second of which found Jordie Barrett, who tucked his way over for a try in the left corner. The hints and clues from Sam Cane and Ian Foster in the media following their forensic review suggest that this style of rugby is going to be adopted by the All Blacks going forward. “We are still up there with the best in the world when we get front-foot ball," Cane said of the All Blacks play in Europe. "It only needs to be two or three quick phases and we have got guys who can exploit that." “We almost surprised ourselves how well we went with our pick-and-goes, considering it is not traditionally how we play."
The words you never want to hear from All Blacks leadership have been uttered
The All Blacks‘ inability to move the ball forward in their last two tests of the year against France and Ireland has been scrutinised heavily both inside and outside the camp. ADVERTISEMENT
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
Fuck me drunk.
In the third quarter of the French test, the All Blacks ran a set-piece play that involved Sam Cane peeling off the lineout maul and looking for options inside and out. He opted to carry and set up the first ruck. The supporting All Blacks pack then proceeded to pick-and-go relentlessly at the fringes of the ruck phase-after-phase. They finally found the gain line. They finally found continuity and control. They finally went forward, would you believe it. They worked down to the French goal line before Aaron Smith played two passes, the second of which found Jordie Barrett, who tucked his way over for a try in the left corner. The hints and clues from Sam Cane and Ian Foster in the media following their forensic review suggest that this style of rugby is going to be adopted by the All Blacks going forward. “We are still up there with the best in the world when we get front-foot ball," Cane said of the All Blacks play in Europe. "It only needs to be two or three quick phases and we have got guys who can exploit that." “We almost surprised ourselves how well we went with our pick-and-goes, considering it is not traditionally how we play."
The words you never want to hear from All Blacks leadership have been uttered
The All Blacks‘ inability to move the ball forward in their last two tests of the year against France and Ireland has been scrutinised heavily both inside and outside the camp. ADVERTISEMENT
And we didn't notice this?
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@canefan me likey!
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
Fuck me drunk.
In the third quarter of the French test, the All Blacks ran a set-piece play that involved Sam Cane peeling off the lineout maul and looking for options inside and out. He opted to carry and set up the first ruck. The supporting All Blacks pack then proceeded to pick-and-go relentlessly at the fringes of the ruck phase-after-phase. They finally found the gain line. They finally found continuity and control. They finally went forward, would you believe it. They worked down to the French goal line before Aaron Smith played two passes, the second of which found Jordie Barrett, who tucked his way over for a try in the left corner. The hints and clues from Sam Cane and Ian Foster in the media following their forensic review suggest that this style of rugby is going to be adopted by the All Blacks going forward. “We are still up there with the best in the world when we get front-foot ball," Cane said of the All Blacks play in Europe. "It only needs to be two or three quick phases and we have got guys who can exploit that." “We almost surprised ourselves how well we went with our pick-and-goes, considering it is not traditionally how we play."
The words you never want to hear from All Blacks leadership have been uttered
The All Blacks‘ inability to move the ball forward in their last two tests of the year against France and Ireland has been scrutinised heavily both inside and outside the camp. ADVERTISEMENT
And we didn't notice this?
I'm sure I noticed it in the first lions test, is only taken Hansen, foster, and co 4 more years...
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@machpants said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
Fuck me drunk.
In the third quarter of the French test, the All Blacks ran a set-piece play that involved Sam Cane peeling off the lineout maul and looking for options inside and out. He opted to carry and set up the first ruck. The supporting All Blacks pack then proceeded to pick-and-go relentlessly at the fringes of the ruck phase-after-phase. They finally found the gain line. They finally found continuity and control. They finally went forward, would you believe it. They worked down to the French goal line before Aaron Smith played two passes, the second of which found Jordie Barrett, who tucked his way over for a try in the left corner. The hints and clues from Sam Cane and Ian Foster in the media following their forensic review suggest that this style of rugby is going to be adopted by the All Blacks going forward. “We are still up there with the best in the world when we get front-foot ball," Cane said of the All Blacks play in Europe. "It only needs to be two or three quick phases and we have got guys who can exploit that." “We almost surprised ourselves how well we went with our pick-and-goes, considering it is not traditionally how we play."
The words you never want to hear from All Blacks leadership have been uttered
The All Blacks‘ inability to move the ball forward in their last two tests of the year against France and Ireland has been scrutinised heavily both inside and outside the camp. ADVERTISEMENT
And we didn't notice this?
I'm sure I noticed it in the first lions test, is only taken Hansen, foster, and co 4 more years...
it's almost like the basics of rugby at any level is true, and you have to earn the right to go wide by sucking in defenders closer.
Pick me for next AB coach!
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
“We are still up there with the best in the world when we get front-foot ball," Cane said of the All Blacks play in Europe.
nothing like aiming high!
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
Fuck me drunk.
That RugbyPass article is such a bloody shit show. Talking about pick and goes as 'brain dead rugby'. Ben Smith and I fundamentally disagree on this. Imposing forward dominance around the ruck creates space outside. It's exactly the opposite of brain dead rugby - trying to spin it wide early is the kind of brain dead play we've seen too much of from the ABs this year.
The comments from Foster and Cane don't suggest that they are going to go 'full monty' towards braindead rugby, and that only 'two or three phases' of the tight stuff might solve the gain line issue, but given the inability of this side to run a decent attacking shape it won't make a difference unless fundamental details are addressed.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2021:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2021:
Probably a good replacement. I've always rated Fox.
Personally think Schmidt is an arsehole, but that's a personal opinion developed as a 13 yo.
He's probably quite good at rugby though.
How did you know him as a 13yr old? I ask because that's almost exactly when I came to know him!
Edit - I think you're a little older than me - my 13yr+ old experience started c. 1990
Attended 1981 Scout Jamboree in Hastings. He was patrol leader. (Patrols were mixed up from across 'Tararua' (essentially 'Bush' Woodville, Pahiatua, Eketahuna) and Southern Hawkes Bay ( Dannevirke etc.))
(As an aside I recall playing cricket with his brother Andrew who was a nice chap.)
I was was the youngest in patrol (i.e. tent), barely old enough to attend, and therefore the butt of everybody's jokes.
Which was fun.
So he shall always be a piston wristed gibbon for not stopping that.
Not that I hold a grudge...
Mind you he would have been 16, so just a kid himself. Seemed like an adult to me at the time.
Jamboree was awesome though.
Good story! I can see that streak in him. I had him as a Bball coach and can totally imagine your situation. Quite a cold demeanour mostly.
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More info on Schmidt here:
All Blacks coup: Joe Schmidt joins Foster's coaching team
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Schmidt brings genuine heavyweight rugby intellect and almost a decade of test experience.
Schmidts role:
It is thought his role will likely see him help head coach Ian Foster analyse opposition sides and develop strategic plans to help the All Blacks build the tactical blueprints they will need to succeed against teams who stylistically present a different challenge to the ruck and run rugby preferred throughout Australasia.
Review could have an impact on assistant coaches
The All Blacks are in the midst of a review of the 2021 season, one which may result in further changes if the New Zealand Rugby board is not convinced that all of Foster's existing coaching group have performed well enough to justify two-year contract extensions. .... The findings of the review are unlikely to be finalised until January next year,
Schmidt & the Blues
He agreed in October to join the Blues next season as a support coach on a one-year deal and will see that out before joining the All Blacks. He was, however, already in advanced negotiations with the All Blacks, when he struck that arrangement with the Blues as Foster has long planned to involve Schmidt in his set-up. When Foster was initially given the job in late 2019 he tried to persuade Schmidt to be part of the team – as a third selector. -
Another article about which props and locks could force their way into contention.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
Fuck me drunk.
That RugbyPass article is such a bloody shit show. Talking about pick and goes as 'brain dead rugby'. Ben Smith and I fundamentally disagree on this. Imposing forward dominance around the ruck creates space outside. It's exactly the opposite of brain dead rugby - trying to spin it wide early is the kind of brain dead play we've seen too much of from the ABs
this year.for the last 3-4 years.Fixed it for you.
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Could Schmidt be this coaching teams Professor? I have a bit more hope now.
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@mikedogz said in All Blacks 2022:
Could Schmidt be this coaching teams Professor? I have a bit more hope now.
I am just happy to have someone from outside our bubble, I really hope Schmidt tells it like it is and isn't drawn into the Foster Group Think Tank that clearly is very shit.
I also wonder how you can be a selector but still be heavily involved with the Blues, you can't help but think that would bias him in some way.
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@chimoaus wasnt Fox still involved at the Blues early on in his time with the ABs?
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
@mikedogz said in All Blacks 2022:
Could Schmidt be this coaching teams Professor? I have a bit more hope now.
I am just happy to have someone from outside our bubble, I really hope Schmidt tells it like it is and isn't drawn into the Foster Group Think Tank that clearly is very shit.
he'll be able to tell them their weaknesses, how they beat them, and what they were worried about. Great appointment I think
we'll miss Fox, but I htink he did his dash
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@nzzp Foxy thought George Bridge was the second coming. I think he's in his dotage
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp Foxy thought George Bridge was the second coming. I think he's in his dotage
Whenever I think about what’s wrong with our current set-up, I always think of your story about him essentially saying that Bridge was locked in, despite (at that time) playing one test against Japan.
If we are lucky, Schmidt will bring some new ideas to the attack formation, and that article hints at some coaching changes. We (stupidly) overpaid for Moar and should cut him loose.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2022:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp Foxy thought George Bridge was the second coming. I think he's in his dotage
Whenever I think about what’s wrong with our current set-up, I always think of your story about him essentially saying that Bridge was locked in, despite (at that time) playing one test against Japan.
We (stupidly) overpaid for Moar and should cut him loose.
We should not pay More
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
we'll miss Fox, but I htink he did his dash
I really like Grant Fox, I've enjoyed his play, commentary and media appearances while a selector. I'm also an Aucklander...
But at the end of the day selections during his tenure, especially in key moments after 2015 when things got harder have been poor underlined by the general ambivalence around building a centre combination or developing an international 10.
When the tough calls had to be made in 2019 on Read and SBW, they made the wrong ones on Cane and Smith. They bottled the Lions decider, Kaino at lock and you could go on.
Who knows who made what calls, but post 2015 the selection has been pedestrian at best.
The class of 2012 + Whitelock will be 10+ years into their test careers come the next RWC and some tough love will need to be dealt out (no idea to who and if that means dropping from the 15, 23 or squad, time will tell) - I feel more confident with an outsider and someone still looking for their first RWC win to push for the necessary changes.
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@rotated it's time for new voices. Hopefully this is just the beginning
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@rotated it's time for new voices. Hopefully this is just the beginning
Seems just yesterday we had the story of the appointment of a competent assistant (Leon) to a head coach who some of the board loved, and some didn't (Tana).
Fingers crossed?
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2022:
@rotated it's time for new voices. Hopefully this is just the beginning
Seems just yesterday we had the story of the appointment of a competent assistant (Leon) to a head coach who some of the board loved, and some didn't (Tana).
Fingers crossed?
Who knows. But schmidt knows the Northern game and his input certainly can't hurt. Same could be said for Gatland even though he seems like a whinger
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@canefan I think he will just provide a point of difference, he has tread a similar path to Henry & Hansen before him, the level of respective successes can be debated, but he will bring different ideas, different plans, which include how they approach playing (and beating) the ABs, something none of the current panel have experienced, or even Henry or Hansen previously....Mitch & Rennie likely only other candidates in this boat?
