So what did we learn from Bled2?
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So a thumping win, great to see, and great to see some captaincy all about winning - take the 3 when it's a gimmie - take a bow Sam Whitelock.
Learnings (to borrow one of the many fcuked up terms that players and coaches seem to spout ad nauseum in interviews).
Learning 1: Jordy Barrett is a 12, and as a centre, Reiko Iaone makes a really good wing.
Big Jordy loved it in close, about as much as the old campaigner Foley hated it, seeing the youngest Barrett charging down his defensive channel time and time again! For the first time this season the All Black 12 looked commanding - something we haven't seen since Nonu was making defenders look weak and feable! Keep him there please Fozzie, perhaps at last we've hit it right putting a fullback into the midfield (Cullen, Muliania anyone)!
Reiko - in the last two tests has shown a complete lack of ability to put his outsides away into a gap. He's got a man with more gas than Russia outside him, and he doesn't pass him the ball - Will Jordan only needs half a yard of space and it's goodnight nurse. Reiko was the best wing in the world two short years ago, the centre experiment has failed. Move him back to his wing please.Learning 2: We need to find a 6. Like the midfield being spoilt with the GOAT combination of Smith and Nonu, we've had nothing since another GOAT, or close to it, Kaino retired. Akira is not the answer, Frizell is not the answer, Barrett is not the answer. We've had no one dominant in the tackle like Kaino since, well Kaino, Barrett's a lock who tries hard, Akira a show pony who vanishes when the hard work is needed, and Frizell has had plenty of chances but never cemented the position as his. I think we miss Blackadder, probably out best option in 6 at the moment.
Learning 3: Nepo Laulala and Ofa Tu'uangafasi are not up to test level anymore. Nepo especially. He was so slow getting off the ground after making tackles he was in danger of taking root in the turf. Certainly not the agile player that seems to fill the 1 and 3 jerseys across international teams. Ofa not quite so bad, but still not what you need at test level. And who'd have thunk, Tyrel Lomax earning scrum penalties, making years with the ball in hand, and in general being a very good test level prop. Certainly not me after he was demolished in the Super 12-13-14-15 (whatever it is now) while playing against NSW! Ethan de Groot. The more he plays, the more I like him. Horrible missed tackle early, but after that was fine, and has a bit of attitude about him - almost like a halfback stuck in a props body, and making the best of a bad situation! Richard Loe was not afraid of lettting players know their pedigree, and I think Ethan is the same!
Learning 4; Beauden Barrett is best at fullback. The extra room, and the ability to play his running game make him super dangerous, The fact that he has bugger all of a passing game is masked, so keep him out of 10, 15 is for him.
Foster, put on your big boy coaching pants and tell the veteran that's where he's going to play, so suck it up buttercup.Learning 4: I think we're going to be fine come the next world cup at hooker, Samasoni will be number 1, and between the two veterans Coles and Taylor, we'll get enough time to rest the human wrecking ball at the tail end of matches. Taylor looked a lot more like Taylor, this match, looks like he's getting his mojo back - off field and on perhaps....?
Learning 5: Bring back McCaw... OK, another GOAT, and not just 7, but our loose trio as a trio has been outplayed in pretty much every test this year, generally as much impact as a fly on a windscreen. Only Ardi is consistently earning his keep, and he should be at 7. It's a sad state of affairs when a converted opensider is out best 8. Doesn't say much for Sotutu et al. Are there any youngsters coming through - in all 3 positions?
Learning 7: Plumtree and Moar must have been bad. We had heard that they were only kept on after last seasons tour because of Fozzy, that the players wanted them gone, but... Anyway, the amount of times the players sing Jason Ryans praises must be grating to Foz, and Plums! Another wrong decision from supercoach.
Learning: Or thought 1. Perofeta, Tuivasa-Sheck, why? You don't try and find out if players are good enough for the All Blacks by picking them and then trying to train them up. They earn their place by form in Super and NPC etc. RTS wasn't trusted to come into the 12 shirt for this test despite the first and second choice 12s being injured. A project player? A waster of space selection. He won't be running out in a RWC knockout game unless there are at least 5 centre injuries - Reiko, Jordy, Anton, Jack, David... Perofeta, poor bugger, here's 90 seconds to prove yourself, win the deciding test against Ireland. Another wasted jersey. The selection of Fakatava as a different type of halfback from Smith. Then we use Smith-lite, Christie off the bench. Webber should have been there ahead of all 3, the best running halfback in NZ, and his pass in not half bad either, and his support play and outright pace unmatched by any 9 in the world.
Ummmmmmm 1: I think that's about it, so are we on the right track for nextx years RWC? No. We've still got a coach that is too bloody nice when it comes to giving players 900 chances. We're probably lucky Comin Meads is supping a beer with Prince Phillip and Lizzy a tth emoment, otherwise Fozzy would have given ole Pinetree another chance. So kiss another win goodbye, even if we play well. France is going to be too strong at home and will win their first trophy after 2, or is it 3 finals. They play good rugby too, so good luck to them!
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@BartMan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
So a thumping win, great to see, and great to see some captaincy all about winning - take the 3 when it's a gimmie - take a bow Sam Whitelock.
Learnings (to borrow one of the many fcuked up terms that players and coaches seem to spout ad nauseum in interviews).
Learning 1: Jordy Barrett is a 12, and as a centre, Reiko Iaone makes a really good wing.
Big Jordy loved it in close, about as much as the old campaigner Foley hated it, seeing the youngest Barrett charging down his defensive channel time and time again! For the first time this season the All Black 12 looked commanding - something we haven't seen since Nonu was making defenders look weak and feable! Keep him there please Fozzie, perhaps at last we've hit it right putting a fullback into the midfield (Cullen, Muliania anyone)!
Reiko - in the last two tests has shown a complete lack of ability to put his outsides away into a gap. He's got a man with more gas than Russia outside him, and he doesn't pass him the ball - Will Jordan only needs half a yard of space and it's goodnight nurse. Reiko was the best wing in the world two short years ago, the centre experiment has failed. Move him back to his wing please.Learning 2: We need to find a 6. Like the midfield being spoilt with the GOAT combination of Smith and Nonu, we've had nothing since another GOAT, or close to it, Kaino retired. Akira is not the answer, Frizell is not the answer, Barrett is not the answer. We've had no one dominant in the tackle like Kaino since, well Kaino, Barrett's a lock who tries hard, Akira a show pony who vanishes when the hard work is needed, and Frizell has had plenty of chances but never cemented the position as his. I think we miss Blackadder, probably out best option in 6 at the moment.
Learning 3: Nepo Laulala and Ofa Tu'uangafasi are not up to test level anymore. Nepo especially. He was so slow getting off the ground after making tackles he was in danger of taking root in the turf. Certainly not the agile player that seems to fill the 1 and 3 jerseys across international teams. Ofa not quite so bad, but still not what you need at test level. And who'd have thunk, Tyrel Lomax earning scrum penalties, making years with the ball in hand, and in general being a very good test level prop. Certainly not me after he was demolished in the Super 12-13-14-15 (whatever it is now) while playing against NSW! Ethan de Groot. The more he plays, the more I like him. Horrible missed tackle early, but after that was fine, and has a bit of attitude about him - almost like a halfback stuck in a props body, and making the best of a bad situation! Richard Loe was not afraid of lettting players know their pedigree, and I think Ethan is the same!
Learning 4; Beauden Barrett is best at fullback. The extra room, and the ability to play his running game make him super dangerous, The fact that he has bugger all of a passing game is masked, so keep him out of 10, 15 is for him.
Foster, put on your big boy coaching pants and tell the veteran that's where he's going to play, so suck it up buttercup.Learning 4: I think we're going to be fine come the next world cup at hooker, Samasoni will be number 1, and between the two veterans Coles and Taylor, we'll get enough time to rest the human wrecking ball at the tail end of matches. Taylor looked a lot more like Taylor, this match, looks like he's getting his mojo back - off field and on perhaps....?
Learning 5: Bring back McCaw... OK, another GOAT, and not just 7, but our loose trio as a trio has been outplayed in pretty much every test this year, generally as much impact as a fly on a windscreen. Only Ardi is consistently earning his keep, and he should be at 7. It's a sad state of affairs when a converted opensider is out best 8. Doesn't say much for Sotutu et al. Are there any youngsters coming through - in all 3 positions?
Learning 7: Plumtree and Moar must have been bad. We had heard that they were only kept on after last seasons tour because of Fozzy, that the players wanted them gone, but... Anyway, the amount of times the players sing Jason Ryans praises must be grating to Foz, and Plums! Another wrong decision from supercoach.
Learning: Or thought 1. Perofeta, Tuivasa-Sheck, why? You don't try and find out if players are good enough for the All Blacks by picking them and then trying to train them up. They earn their place by form in Super and NPC etc. RTS wasn't trusted to come into the 12 shirt for this test despite the first and second choice 12s being injured. A project player? A waster of space selection. He won't be running out in a RWC knockout game unless there are at least 5 centre injuries - Reiko, Jordy, Anton, Jack, David... Perofeta, poor bugger, here's 90 seconds to prove yourself, win the deciding test against Ireland. Another wasted jersey. The selection of Fakatava as a different type of halfback from Smith. Then we use Smith-lite, Christie off the bench. Webber should have been there ahead of all 3, the best running halfback in NZ, and his pass in not half bad either, and his support play and outright pace unmatched by any 9 in the world.
Ummmmmmm 1: I think that's about it, so are we on the right track for nextx years RWC? No. We've still got a coach that is too bloody nice when it comes to giving players 900 chances. We're probably lucky Comin Meads is supping a beer with Prince Phillip and Lizzy a tth emoment, otherwise Fozzy would have given ole Pinetree another chance. So kiss another win goodbye, even if we play well. France is going to be too strong at home and will win their first trophy after 2, or is it 3 finals. They play good rugby too, so good luck to them!
So much to agree with, but much I don’t. Would be good to be able to vote individually on each learning.
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@BartMan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
So a thumping win, great to see, and great to see some captaincy all about winning - take the 3 when it's a gimmie - take a bow Sam Whitelock.
Learnings (to borrow one of the many fcuked up terms that players and coaches seem to spout ad nauseum in interviews).
Learning 1: Jordy Barrett is a 12, and as a centre, Reiko Iaone makes a really good wing.
Big Jordy loved it in close, about as much as the old campaigner Foley hated it, seeing the youngest Barrett charging down his defensive channel time and time again! For the first time this season the All Black 12 looked commanding - something we haven't seen since Nonu was making defenders look weak and feable! Keep him there please Fozzie, perhaps at last we've hit it right putting a fullback into the midfield (Cullen, Muliania anyone)!
Reiko - in the last two tests has shown a complete lack of ability to put his outsides away into a gap. He's got a man with more gas than Russia outside him, and he doesn't pass him the ball - Will Jordan only needs half a yard of space and it's goodnight nurse. Reiko was the best wing in the world two short years ago, the centre experiment has failed. Move him back to his wing please.Learning 2: We need to find a 6. Like the midfield being spoilt with the GOAT combination of Smith and Nonu, we've had nothing since another GOAT, or close to it, Kaino retired. Akira is not the answer, Frizell is not the answer, Barrett is not the answer. We've had no one dominant in the tackle like Kaino since, well Kaino, Barrett's a lock who tries hard, Akira a show pony who vanishes when the hard work is needed, and Frizell has had plenty of chances but never cemented the position as his. I think we miss Blackadder, probably out best option in 6 at the moment.
Learning 3: Nepo Laulala and Ofa Tu'uangafasi are not up to test level anymore. Nepo especially. He was so slow getting off the ground after making tackles he was in danger of taking root in the turf. Certainly not the agile player that seems to fill the 1 and 3 jerseys across international teams. Ofa not quite so bad, but still not what you need at test level. And who'd have thunk, Tyrel Lomax earning scrum penalties, making years with the ball in hand, and in general being a very good test level prop. Certainly not me after he was demolished in the Super 12-13-14-15 (whatever it is now) while playing against NSW! Ethan de Groot. The more he plays, the more I like him. Horrible missed tackle early, but after that was fine, and has a bit of attitude about him - almost like a halfback stuck in a props body, and making the best of a bad situation! Richard Loe was not afraid of lettting players know their pedigree, and I think Ethan is the same!
Learning 4; Beauden Barrett is best at fullback. The extra room, and the ability to play his running game make him super dangerous, The fact that he has bugger all of a passing game is masked, so keep him out of 10, 15 is for him.
Foster, put on your big boy coaching pants and tell the veteran that's where he's going to play, so suck it up buttercup.Learning 4: I think we're going to be fine come the next world cup at hooker, Samasoni will be number 1, and between the two veterans Coles and Taylor, we'll get enough time to rest the human wrecking ball at the tail end of matches. Taylor looked a lot more like Taylor, this match, looks like he's getting his mojo back - off field and on perhaps....?
Learning 5: Bring back McCaw... OK, another GOAT, and not just 7, but our loose trio as a trio has been outplayed in pretty much every test this year, generally as much impact as a fly on a windscreen. Only Ardi is consistently earning his keep, and he should be at 7. It's a sad state of affairs when a converted opensider is out best 8. Doesn't say much for Sotutu et al. Are there any youngsters coming through - in all 3 positions?
Learning 7: Plumtree and Moar must have been bad. We had heard that they were only kept on after last seasons tour because of Fozzy, that the players wanted them gone, but... Anyway, the amount of times the players sing Jason Ryans praises must be grating to Foz, and Plums! Another wrong decision from supercoach.
Learning: Or thought 1. Perofeta, Tuivasa-Sheck, why? You don't try and find out if players are good enough for the All Blacks by picking them and then trying to train them up. They earn their place by form in Super and NPC etc. RTS wasn't trusted to come into the 12 shirt for this test despite the first and second choice 12s being injured. A project player? A waster of space selection. He won't be running out in a RWC knockout game unless there are at least 5 centre injuries - Reiko, Jordy, Anton, Jack, David... Perofeta, poor bugger, here's 90 seconds to prove yourself, win the deciding test against Ireland. Another wasted jersey. The selection of Fakatava as a different type of halfback from Smith. Then we use Smith-lite, Christie off the bench. Webber should have been there ahead of all 3, the best running halfback in NZ, and his pass in not half bad either, and his support play and outright pace unmatched by any 9 in the world.
Ummmmmmm 1: I think that's about it, so are we on the right track for nextx years RWC? No. We've still got a coach that is too bloody nice when it comes to giving players 900 chances. We're probably lucky Comin Meads is supping a beer with Prince Phillip and Lizzy a tth emoment, otherwise Fozzy would have given ole Pinetree another chance. So kiss another win goodbye, even if we play well. France is going to be too strong at home and will win their first trophy after 2, or is it 3 finals. They play good rugby too, so good luck to them!
More gas than Russia
Well played
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@BartMan Yet another excellent performance from Rieko Ioane, made huge metres, excellent decision making, rushed up on defence when needed, and got a turn over - he's not a centre! Don't you get tired of pushing premeditated takes? He was excellent, and I challenge anyone to name a better centre since 2015.
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Learning #1 you get half a point for identifying what everyone else saw: Jordie was commanding at 12. You lose half a point for the dribble about Rieko being a wing.
Learning #2 is no one individually has had a stand out game that screams I'm the next Kaino. Blackadder might have the engine for it, but not the impact.
Learning #3 agreed on Laulala. Lomax had a big game tonight. A game I didn't think he had in him.
Learning #4. No argument if we can get a good five-eighth.
Learning #5 Samisoni is clearly our best hooker. Someone young needs to step up and make the case for either Coles or Codie to step back.
Learning #6 Ardie isn't an openside - he hasn't played there in years. If Cane can't play, Dalton is next in line.
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Ioane is not a centre
Is the dumbest rugby take since the 81 Boks will be welcome in NZ
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@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
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@Tim said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
IT'S 1996 AND THE CENTRE SHOULD PASS TO THE WINGER WHO HAS 15M OF SPACE
DEEEEERP
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@Tim said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
He has played very well but still needs to improve a lot in putting his wingers away and also in nailing breaks. He has made a few costly errors there so I wouldn't call it all blinders. I think he is better as a winger still. But we have no better centre available at the moment so all good. And his defensive efforts have been far better than those around him so kudos there too.
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@Tim said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
I think he's the best option at 13 and has come on in spades, but has some work-on's - e. g. he needs to give his support players/wingers more space. There have been times when he's made a blistering break but edged towards the touchline which cramps his attack options.
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@BartMan Great post. You spark Rugby debate like no other poster but most of that I agree with.
Disagreement:
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I wouldn't write off Ofa T yet. Get him back playing more often and he's still a good test prop.
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Dalton Papali'i's no Richie McCaw ( who is?) but he's developing into a bloody good player. I see him a big part of the ABs next two or three RWC challenges.
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I think Akira Ioane might be our best bet at 6. His power is something special and he's handling is excellent for a big guy. He needs to up his core fitness and workrate to become a world class player. Is it worth the NZR employing a trainer to work 1-1 with him? Next best 6 = Ethan Blackadder who has the work ethic but nothing like Akira's power or talent.
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Reiko's fine at 13.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Tim said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
I think he's the best option at 13 and has come on in spades, but has some work-on's - e. g. he needs to give his support players/wingers more space. There have been times when he's made a blistering break but edged towards the touchline which cramps his attack options.
Yes perhaps Reiko is currently best option with injuries etc. But needs to learn to put his wingers into space. You know, centre stuff!
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It is possible that the players are coached to take the ball to ground if they don't think a pass is on. RI I think early in his 13 journey did push a lot of passes that went to ground. Maybe coaches would rather recycle and build pressure. I guess it's a balance because Jordan was clearly in a good position last night and he missed him.
We also get the benefit of multiple replays etc and players make split second decisions, sometimes they get it wrong.
I think he is making metres, making tackles and is doing a lot of his core roles well.
Link play maybe a work on as Sotutu and Clarke have also missed some obvious overlaps recently.
I actually think Paps and Akira complement each other very well. Our ruck and pillar defence was bloody good tonight with both stopping the Wallabies in their tracks often holding up the player slowing it down.
For some reason we judge our loosies off their attack more than their D and I would argue the tight D work is just as important and the loose forward unit did well tonight.
When you have props like Lomax and locks carting it up the gets it makes it much easier on the backs and smith.
It is also obvious that the forwards are now dragging players past the ball in a ruck to force the ruck defence line backwards. There was multiple times the ball was a good metre or two behind where the ruck finished. This no doubt creates more space so props to the coach that has figured that out.
The Wallabies were truly awful with very poor discipline and it is hard to really gauge out performance but I will take three on the trot after how we started. Clearly Schmidt and Ryan have been positive changes and I look forward to the northern tour.
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I think off that break RI could have passed to Will, Koribete may or may not have caught Will who in turn could have passed back to RI...don't think it was a bad non pass, but a could have passed.
I think guys like DP, HS, RTS,FF, TV and others have all been given far too little time out there to be making any kind of call on them.
Of that bunch, DP is the one I like most, potential captain, arguably the best 7 in super rugby, then got splinters most of the test campaign.
AI is an interesting one, physically he should be the best player on the park, but often isn't...he did some good stuff last night but still seems to drift in and out of games, think he has way more upside than Frizzell, but also see the value of the energiser bunny, Blackadder.
Was nice having a physical direct running 12, rather than a lightweight 12 and using him to try and bash his way through! Havili has his skills, but doesn't demand attention from opposition as a bigger 12 will.
Was great to see the 2 old locks playing well, feeding off one another's energy, winding back the clock...can they hang on for another 12 months?
Still huge concerns with our ability to do the basics, I mean we had what, 30 mins in the last 2 weeks with a numerical advantage yetfailed to capitalise...and the other not so small elephant in the room, our defence.
We seem good on our line more often when no depth to worry about but is this.just good scramble, but outside this we are still so unstructured and ill disciplined (in being able to hold our line) often we are staggered, width is all over the show...
All told, I think more positives than negatives.
