Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It would have ruined the economy because we're so reliant on international tourism (10% of our economy, 100,000 direct jobs), and any form of isolation is the end of that.
Umm, so tourism is fucked so we should get as many people to join then as possible? Of course isolation is going be a big problem, but our approach is damaging many more businesses.
Particularly small businesses that have very little breathing room.
I just hope that they are considering that with enough weight on the 20th. I’m concerned they have an unrealistic target of eradicating the virus.
That target would be “at all costs”
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I just hope that they are considering that with enough weight on the 20th. I’m concerned they have an unrealistic target of eradicating the virus.
That target would be “at all costs”It would be well named in that case.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Absolutely sick death of the govt propaganda being repeated by the media that NZ was on the same trajectory as Italy and Spain, that is just bullshit.
Are you? You poor thing, of all the things to make you sick. You seem to be taking this harder than most I have seen or heard of.
The doom and gloom around everything is kind of funny to watch unravel
Oh you seem to have misunderstood, I will be personally fine regardless. If my business fails I have separated my properties and other business from the at risk business.
I am not that stressed out for myself, I am stressed out for some people who work for me, they are good men who have hard lives and tough childhoods. I used to think I understood that as I grew up very working class.... but I didn't really, I still don't, ...but I am closer.
When I read your post it didn't fire me up, it just reminded me of many people I know, good people, but completely and utterly out of touch with the struggling and incredibly spoilt by years of advantage. And I am sure I am taking it harder than most you know, but likely says more about the people you know.
As I get older I appreciate 2 things more and more, 1) personal liberty and freedom 2) A proper safety net to help the struggling.
So yeah the govt actions attack both those things that I cherish. I think becoming a Dad also changed my attitude as our generation is squandering so many basic freedoms at break neck speed... and whilst I will be fine because I will be able to finance my own future, my kids are growing up in a different and less free world , so if all a middle age middle class guy can do is argue his case on the internet, I will, and I won't let some other middle aged middle class guy being an obnoxious ostrich deter me.
I know I am in the minority, and your attitude is the majority. But I don't care as I believe what I believe. And the majority usually have no idea what the heck they talking about. Of course you take that to the next level by not only having little idea, but you mock others for caring.
And this isn't political, both parties would have done this.I just need to clarify that when I say unravel, I certainly didn't mean you or your business! God no. I meant the situation at hand.
I am hoping we all get through this unscathed. (To me unscathed means still have a going concern to keep building)
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@booboo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan I need to elaborate as my post doesn't look right. I do care about BSG, just not the people he speaks of. (In the same way in that I read about people dying that I have never known before, I don't care about that)
If that makes sense
I'm afraid it doesn't.
To my mind you if you don't care about those people who you've never met you wouldn't abide by the lockdown.
Because I'm pretty sure you do care about everybody affected by this you DO abide by the lockdown.
It's finding the balance between lives and life that I'm not sure we've got 100% right yet.
Yeah it does as I don't want to catch the damn thing, so I am sticking to the rules as it were.
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My hunch is 28 days short sharp pain will do less damage to the economy than a drawn out half arsed approach.
28 days which includes school holidays, plus 2 stat holidays. 18 working/trading days for many.
Let a hairdresser or dentist stay open but with desultory turnover but still all the costs? Or shut stuff down , reduce all costs, subsidise wages, defer mortgages. Shift the pain to the commercial landlords who shift it to the banks.
Wont work for all, for some time is money. Can't save everyone, let the 'creative destruction' begin as the textbooks say.
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@Rapido I think that's what everyone is banking on. I look forward to a decent announcement from our Finance Minister on Tuesday or Wednesday with more support for businesses and affected sectors.
Speaking of affected sectors, I was looking at Stats NZ figures here: https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/tourism-satellite-account-2019
There are 229,566 directly and 163,713 indirectly employed in/by tourism (total 393,279 - this includes working owners). Total spend is $40.9 billion, being $17.2 billion for international tourists and $23.7 billion for domestic tourists.
From that, just over 42% of tourism spending is international, suggesting approx. 165,000 jobs on the line if international tourism dries up completely. Obviously there may be reductions in hours instead of job losses in some cases, but it's still a lot of lost work.
I had written a lot more, but it won't display which is annoying. Maybe tomorrow.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp yeah for me, I reckon when we went into lockdown, they needed to lock the borders up to all non-NZ citizens/residents and those returning into a GOvt facility for testing and iso.
Or, there are some that will argue, stay at L3 and lockdown our borders would have been sufficient...
Obviously the >taken with large spoon of salt< figures out of China are encouraging, similarly the numbers coming out of Italy the past 4 or 5 days are encouraging, but the toll there is huge, so things seem to have a way of levelling out, but its the human cost vs the economic cost that has been discussed as well...there will be a lingering human cost as the economic cost bites too.
I cant see how we dont come out after 4 weeks, but how they manage this will be interesting, I expect I will have to keep working from home (cos I can) with my kids being home schooled...I might bring back the cane!
In the UK this morning it is reported that social distancing will remain for the foreseeable future. The populace is simply too large to adopt and eradicate and trace strategy. Schools likely to reopen in mid-May.
Will be interesting to see how NZ addresses the post tourism world...
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Will be interesting to see how NZ addresses the post tourism world...
Not just tourism - business travel is massive. Hotels, flights, entertainment/food - makes up a big proportion of spending
Overseas students, etc.. Big slug GDP.
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
suggesting approx. 165,000 jobs on the line if international tourism dries up completely
I wonder how many of those jobs were filled by overseas people themselves? Obviously will be many Kiwis but in the major tourist destinations a lot of the hospitality staff are from overseas. They still earn and spend money here, so still has an effect, but might change the job loss numbers a bit for New Zealanders.
Accor hotels are a prime example - don't think many of their staff are locals. As they closed down a hotel the day of the shut down in Queenstown, I spoke to an Italian guy and a Spanish girl behind the counter. Room service was by a Phillipina, cleaner was from eastern Europe somewhere judging by the accent. It has been similar in all of their hotels that I have stayed in.
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Looking at most of the rest of the world, this is appropriate for the times. A very young looking @Gibbit in this classic...
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@Stockcar86 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Looking at most of the rest of the world, this is appropriate for the times. A very young looking @Gibbit in this classic...
No. I think we are very unlucky to have our economy wrecked by a govt that panicked