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@Victor-Meldrew Yeah, the guy's got an hour long video on youtube of doing this stuff.
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@Tim said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew Yeah, the guy's got an hour long video on youtube of doing this stuff.
Holy crap.
It feel like the US is in some "Social Justice" bubble and has lost all rationality, not unlike a financial bubble.
Will it go "boom!" sometime?
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@Kirwan said in US Politics:
This. Both parties strive to see people as part of seperate groups, and turn those groups on each other.
Be it race, sexual orientation, views on guns or abortion, whatever.
Democrats think Republicans are evil, Rebublicans think Democrats are immoral and want to destroy the country. So when horrible things happen like what this cop did, it's like lighting a flame on a powder keg.
Nobody on either side of the political divides is trying to unite, it's all attack for their own advantage. It's a mess.
Yes, totally agree. It's worrying the way this is going in other parts of the world too. Here it's not as bad as the US, but we would be in top 5 for sure. Germany perhaps worse (although you can't read about it), Hong Kong certainly as well at the moment (although less political there, as in any dictatorship).
Im not sure of the US resolution. The thing is, that before Covid and now this, I would have argued to anybody that Trump was doing a great job - for Americans. Now, I'm not so sure. I do understand his thought process, but sometimes it's not about the message, its' about how you deliver it.
You start looting, we start shooting ain't ever the right tactic.
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@MajorRage said in US Politics:
You start looting, we start shooting ain't ever the right tactic.
It was
when the looting starts, the shooting starts
Trump said he meant this as a factual statement. (he clarified the next day)
That is when looting starts shooting follows. Either by the looters or others.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
You start looting, we start shooting ain't ever the right tactic.
It was
when the looting starts, the shooting starts
Trump said he meant this as a factual statement. (he clarified the next day)
That is when looting starts shooting follows. Either by the looters or others.
You can’t honestly tell me you believe that.
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In 1967, Miami police Chief Walter Headley used the phrase "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" during hearings about crime in the Florida city, invoking angry reactions from civil rights leaders, according to a news report at the time.
More complexity around this quote but still up to interpretation
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@Kirwan said in US Politics:
The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Qld police are going down that route with the introduction of the vests and have copped criticism for it. The problem is, with all the gear police are expected to carry (Bodyworn camera, radio, cuffs, baton, cap spray, taser, first aid kit, notebook, knife, safety gloves, firearm, spare ammo, torch) you need a vest, otherwise all that shit is crammed around your waist. It gets bloody heavy and can lead to injuries.
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@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
I was a little concerned after Corona but I think the footage of the last few nights settles it.
Congrats on 4 more years Mr Trump.
Mate, this is a truly bizarre attitude and conclusion.
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@junior said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Second thing is they have to crush Antifa and the violent protestors.
Leave the peaceful ones (for Christ sake stop pepper spraying woman and children).
It’s a shit show however you look at it. Hard to see a way back.
This. It all feeds into the disproportionate manner in which the police react to (mostly) petty crime (or at least the perception). Do you really need to kneel on a guy's neck just because you (wrongly) think he's using counterfeit money?
I haven't seen the full video so I am not commenting specifically on this situation, but any use of force used by police can look really bad when you only see part of the interaction.
I have had many a wrestle with people not wanting to be arrested, even for very minor stuff. I have had a guy "surrender" after I had him pinned to the ground. He even said "I can't breath." I relaxed a little to make things easier for him and guess what? He was back up fighting full on and I copped multiple punches to the head leading to weeks of headaches and stitches in my lip. I haven't made that mistake since. Most cops will have a similar story.
Sometimes the most effective way to control someone is to control their head. It doesn't look good, but it is effective. Even when people are cuffed, if they are motivated enough they can still cause you damage.
It is dangerous leaving your bodyweight on someone after a struggle. You need to very closely monitor them to make sure they are good and at least get them in the recovery position as soon as possible. It's a balancing act. You need to keep control of them and ensure your safety as well as make sure they are ok. If they have existing medical conditions, or under the influence of drugs etc, the risk increases, for the one arrested and for the cop.
Having to use force is shit. There are so many ways it can go wrong.
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@Crazy-Horse said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Qld police are going down that route with the introduction of the vests and have copped criticism for it. The problem is, with all the gear police are expected to carry (Bodyworn camera, radio, cuffs, baton, cap spray, taser, first aid kit, notebook, knife, safety gloves, firearm, spare ammo, torch) you need a vest, otherwise all that shit is crammed around your waist. It gets bloody heavy and can lead to injuries.
There may be practical reasons to wear them. But it shouldn't make you act like John Mclane when you do. Another case of misguided police brutality, this time in the major black city of Atlanta. 6 officers charged
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@MajorRage said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
This. Both parties strive to see people as part of seperate groups, and turn those groups on each other.
Be it race, sexual orientation, views on guns or abortion, whatever.
Democrats think Republicans are evil, Rebublicans think Democrats are immoral and want to destroy the country. So when horrible things happen like what this cop did, it's like lighting a flame on a powder keg.
Nobody on either side of the political divides is trying to unite, it's all attack for their own advantage. It's a mess.
Yes, totally agree. It's worrying the way this is going in other parts of the world too. Here it's not as bad as the US, but we would be in top 5 for sure. Germany perhaps worse (although you can't read about it), Hong Kong certainly as well at the moment (although less political there, as in any dictatorship).
Im not sure of the US resolution. The thing is, that before Covid and now this, I would have argued to anybody that Trump was doing a great job - for Americans. Now, I'm not so sure. I do understand his thought process, but sometimes it's not about the message, its' about how you deliver it.
You start looting, we start shooting ain't ever the right tactic.
I would at least have admitted that he wasn't the total disaster I thought he would be. Now he is fast becoming that disaster.
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crazy-Horse said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Qld police are going down that route with the introduction of the vests and have copped criticism for it. The problem is, with all the gear police are expected to carry (Bodyworn camera, radio, cuffs, baton, cap spray, taser, first aid kit, notebook, knife, safety gloves, firearm, spare ammo, torch) you need a vest, otherwise all that shit is crammed around your waist. It gets bloody heavy and can lead to injuries.
There may be practical reasons to wear them. But it shouldn't make you act like John Mclane when you do.
Easier said than done
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Regarding all of the military type gear hasn’t there been a problem for quite a long time now that police were given budgets (I think from a federal fund?) for anti-terrorism equipment and have been buying and training with all sorts of OTT stuff that they are itching to use?
There was a fair bit in the news about it a few years ago. -
@Crazy-Horse said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crazy-Horse said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Qld police are going down that route with the introduction of the vests and have copped criticism for it. The problem is, with all the gear police are expected to carry (Bodyworn camera, radio, cuffs, baton, cap spray, taser, first aid kit, notebook, knife, safety gloves, firearm, spare ammo, torch) you need a vest, otherwise all that shit is crammed around your waist. It gets bloody heavy and can lead to injuries.
There may be practical reasons to wear them. But it shouldn't make you act like John Mclane when you do.
Easier said than done
Must be a very tough job, made harder over there with the high levels of gun possession. But 3 officers watching one officer choke a guy to death over 8 minutes with no obvious signs of resistance all caught on film is a bad look
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@Crazy-Horse said in US Politics:
@junior said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Second thing is they have to crush Antifa and the violent protestors.
Leave the peaceful ones (for Christ sake stop pepper spraying woman and children).
It’s a shit show however you look at it. Hard to see a way back.
This. It all feeds into the disproportionate manner in which the police react to (mostly) petty crime (or at least the perception). Do you really need to kneel on a guy's neck just because you (wrongly) think he's using counterfeit money?
I haven't seen the full video so I am not commenting specifically on this situation, but any use of force used by police can look really bad when you only see part of the interaction.
I have had many a wrestle with people not wanting to be arrested, even for very minor stuff. I have had a guy "surrender" after I had him pinned to the ground. He even said "I can't breath." I relaxed a little to make things easier for him and guess what? He was back up fighting full on and I copped multiple punches to the head leading to weeks of headaches and stitches in my lip. I haven't made that mistake since. Most cops will have a similar story.
Sometimes the most effective way to control someone is to control their head. It doesn't look good, but it is effective. Even when people are cuffed, if they are motivated enough they can still cause you damage.
It is dangerous leaving your bodyweight on someone after a struggle. You need to very closely monitor them to make sure they are good and at least get them in the recovery position as soon as possible. It's a balancing act. You need to keep control of them and ensure your safety as well as make sure they are ok. If they have existing medical conditions, or under the influence of drugs etc, the risk increases, for the one arrested and for the cop.
Having to use force is shit. There are so many ways it can go wrong.
Thanks for the perspective. You guys have a tough job, that's for sure.
US Politics