Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November
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@booboo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Donsteppa said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@booboo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Donsteppa said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Coles on the wing early, what were the odds.
@Yeetyaah said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Get off the wing and do your job Coles.
It is his job
I’d have to rewatch a few games to double check, but my impression is that it isn’t Taylor’s job to the same degree.
That defenders of Coles often cite Fitzy from 25 years ago is instructive...
Wasn't so much your comment but as I've gone through the thread I'm amazed at how many seem to think he's just rocking his own tactics.
At the risk of sparking another dull anti Foster rant, he's doing exactly what the coach is asking him too.
Good point re Taylor though. May be he's not as good at it? Or has different strengths so the tactics change to suit? Or another forward takes on that role?
If it's clearly a coaching tactic, that's fine, some will like it, some won't (I don't, given Coles was the starting hooker in a tight five that got outplayed in all aspects by Argentina two weeks ago).
I sometimes wonder about the 'lack of a Plan B' that the All Blacks occasionally get thrown at them... that's on the players as well as the coaching staff, and a senior player arguably should be one of the first to react.
JB on the right wing rather than at fullback is also a coaching/selection issue, but most don't caveat their "WTF are you doing now Jordie!" live posts with that either
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@nostrildamus said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Winger You mean the tight game that Jordan blew up to 38-0 when he came on?
You realise he scored 2 tries and set up the 3rd to make it 38-0 right? You know he didnt come in 80th minute right?Yeah it was really fucking nail-biting stuff at 17-0, 70% possession, 80% territory and Argentina having made nearly four times as many tackles as us. So surprised that our bench players made an impact given how tight it was.
Jordan did make those tries out of nothing. He wasn't helped to some cushy tries by his team mates.
I kind of agree with @Winger 's reply to this.
His team mates forced the Argies to trying some desperate tactics. Jordan didn't make them on his own.
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@booboo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@nostrildamus said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Winger You mean the tight game that Jordan blew up to 38-0 when he came on?
You realise he scored 2 tries and set up the 3rd to make it 38-0 right? You know he didnt come in 80th minute right?Yeah it was really fucking nail-biting stuff at 17-0, 70% possession, 80% territory and Argentina having made nearly four times as many tackles as us. So surprised that our bench players made an impact given how tight it was.
Jordan did make those tries out of nothing. He wasn't helped to some cushy tries by his team mates.
I kind of agree with @Winger 's reply to this.
His team mates forced the Argies to trying some desperate tactics. Jordan didn't make them on his own.
Both his tries came from good line speed that put the attack under pressure. More evidence that we have to start employing a blitz defence like what England and SA are doing. His second intercept try was special though, I don't think Jordie would have had the pace to have scored that.
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Goodhue at 13, is good defensively, runs great lines and sets his wingers up. He is wasted at 12.
Did he get any minutes at 13? I can't recall any.
Would have been interesting seeing him outside Laumape as a comparison.
Did no one notice the sly hit Coles in first half put in to Kramer's ribs? He needed attention afterwards.
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@taniwharugby said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Donsteppa i think it depends who they have, they like to station Coles wide whereas use Taylor in closer allowing someone else to hang on the wing.
Pretty sure its just how they are set up rather than Coles shirking his duties
That said, I haven't watched yet, so will be interesting to see how shit a number of players were based on comments here.
Coles would have scored quite a few of his 13 test tries from that position now
Could it be at tactic to have a big defender out on the wing especially one who is good at winning turnover ball at the tackle
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Other interesting stats that jump out is the effort to use Clarke more. He had 13 runs (2nd to Ardie Savea with 15) and 84 metres with two clean breaks and 4 defenders beaten. He also had at least one very good high ball take, and didn't miss a tackle. Apart from two turnovers, he was just excellent.
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It's hard to go past Ardie in this game as well.
Given that the Argies didn't have the ball, it was really a game for him; he lead the team in runs, with 15 - which is pretty impressive when you think about how hot it was - and scored once with 47 metres (2nd in the forwards), 7 defenders beaten (team leader), and 1 offload.
Looking forward, if we can get more physicality from the second row (especially if BBBR comes back well) and from 6 (if Akira continues to develop), then we might be able to get away with having Cane and Ardie out there together.
I'm not in love with the idea, but if we plan to try to hold the ball more (especially), then we could take greater advantage of his strengths.
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@gt12 just watching game now (2nd half just started) thought he did exactly what was required in the 1st half, carried a few times, passed 4 or so other times, is often first or 2nd to breakdown, makes his tackles, I think he is doing exactly what is asked of him.
Is amusing watching the game after reading comments that's for sure. Its like some people have comments ready to post on certain players no matter what.
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@kev said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@nostrildamus that is AB pattern. In structured play he runs the pattern. In unstructured play no one puts another player into better space with the timing of the pass. To say he is not a distributor is incorrect.
Sorry what are you replying to? Something someone else said? Are you defending JG? I think someone else said he isn't a distributor. I'd agree he is one at, at 13, but last night and at 12 not so much, he backed himself a bit and didn't get very far.
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@nostrildamus just watching the game now and struggling to understand the criticism of his distribution.
He passed more than he ran, most were short passes with close runners, one was a well timed pop to Clarke at pace.
IMO everything that was expected of him.
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@booboo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@nostrildamus said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@No-Quarter said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Winger You mean the tight game that Jordan blew up to 38-0 when he came on?
You realise he scored 2 tries and set up the 3rd to make it 38-0 right? You know he didnt come in 80th minute right?Yeah it was really fucking nail-biting stuff at 17-0, 70% possession, 80% territory and Argentina having made nearly four times as many tackles as us. So surprised that our bench players made an impact given how tight it was.
Jordan did make those tries out of nothing. He wasn't helped to some cushy tries by his team mates.
I kind of agree with @Winger 's reply to this.
His team mates forced the Argies to trying some desperate tactics. Jordan didn't make them on his own.
Jordan showed great anticipation, aggression, timing, ball skills, and speed. Jordie would not have made those tries in minutes 1, 2, or 80. When Jordan sped away the Argie 15 (and was it a wing?) had plenty of time to catch up and they tried-they never gained ground on him. You can say it was tinny luck for both tries (not the help in the third) but Jordan had the skills to capitalize. He could well be found out defensively, he could be worse than Jordie at 15 at AB level. But at the moment we have no idea, and that is game six, and the season is over.
In that wing position though. who has played better for the ABs over the six games? It is criminal that sort of potential has not been tested earlier. -
@taniwharugby said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@nostrildamus just watching the game now and struggling to understand the criticism of his distribution.
He passed more than he ran, most were short passes with close runners, one was a well timed pop to Clarke at pace.
IMO everything that was expected of him.
Who are you talking about? JG? He was sound defensively, I recall some short passes (and he has a beautiful longer one) but the midfield as a whole was not cohesive and efficient on attack. When ALB and JG were 12 and 13 (last year I think?) it seemed to flow that much better.
I am actually a JG fan, at 13 his rugby brain is so astute. Against the English, he was one of the better players. But the backline is cramped, it stutters, and he is at 12. Perhaps it is tactics, perhaps due to another player (but not at 9, we had Smith last night) but I don't think it is because of the opposition.
NB everyone seems to think I criticized JG's distribution, I don't recall that! I do think he seems to be in the wrong positon and he lacks top end pace.
