The Future of Protein?
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@nzzp I have never understood the carbon argument with beef and sheep in NZ. There is very low inputs on alot of that land, and it lacks many other use cases apart from forest. There is no other food producable on that land so its either food or carbon sequestering.
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@kirwan Agreed, there will always be a market for live animal meat, perhaps they should include the externalities or environmental costs into the price, this may change demand.
I think once it is at scale and costs the same I would buy cultivated meat.
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@taniwharugby said in The Future of Protein?:
@kirwan I read an article many years ago saying the best way to stop Kiwi from extinction, was to farm them for the table...
I definitely couldn’t eat a Kiwi, not sure why it’s just a chicken type bird.
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@mn5 said in The Future of Protein?:
The other half’s mother made us all a bunch of vegan patties a few weeks back and I for one was astonished how good they tasted. Of course I chucked lots of hot sauce on but still, just delicious.
Well then it's just a sauce delivery platform. Could have been made of cardboard.
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@muddyriver said in The Future of Protein?:
@nzzp I have never understood the carbon argument with beef and sheep in NZ. There is very low inputs on alot of that land, and it lacks many other use cases apart from forest. There is no other food producable on that land so its either food or carbon sequestering.
I think the argument is around methane primarily - the feed is grown and then decomposes in a very short carbon lifecycle.
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@mariner4life said in The Future of Protein?:
if they take away my ability to purchase animals, then i will eat people
There will always be a choice and live animal meat will always be one. The question is once there is a cheaper alternative that is better for the environment will this have an impact on traditional farming.
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@nta said in The Future of Protein?:
@mn5 said in The Future of Protein?:
The other half’s mother made us all a bunch of vegan patties a few weeks back and I for one was astonished how good they tasted. Of course I chucked lots of hot sauce on but still, just delicious.
Well then it's just a sauce delivery platform. Could have been made of cardboard.
If it’s got protein so I can maintain my #gainz then I’m all for it.
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@taniwharugby I'm not sure many farming animals resemble their previous wild ancestors, and as such are unlikely to survive as wild animals. They would exist as farming animals, pets and probably in zoos or some sort of sanctuary.
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Always has been and always will be a human problem not an animal problem.
There are too many of us on the planet.
And there’s too much food waste.
That’s where all these Climate Change discussions should begin and end.
Otherwise we’re just shuffling the deck.
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I have been a vegetarian for over 20 years and would welcome less animals being slaughtered and plant protein being used instead. I have never really thought about the environmental angle and I suppose that is important (because that actually might hurt humans so people are now worried - ha ha), I just feel sad when I see animals killed (and growing up on a farm, I saw a lot of that).
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@chimoaus I raised this very issue with my wife. She wouldn't contemplate the idea of eating lab meat. In fact she dismissed the concept with astonishing speed. I shouldn't be surprised given she grew up on a cattle farm.
We both agree that free range is an important consideration, happy to pay more to support it and thankfully change is coming in the poultry industry in Australia.
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@mikethesnow said in The Future of Protein?:
Always has been and always will be a human problem not an animal problem.
There are too many of us on the planet.
And there’s too much food waste.
That’s where all these Climate Change discussions should begin and end.
Otherwise we’re just shuffling the deck.
Agree about humans but we aren't going anywhere, we raise over 50 billion chickens each year for consumption and there are over 20 billion farm animals waiting to be slaughtered now. We have to grow crops to feed these animals, they release emissions, take up lots of space etc.
If that protein could be grown with significantly less resources, land and impacts it has to make a difference, that is what I'm getting at.
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@antipodean It is an interesting debate and I am curious about people's beliefs and opinions on the matter.
Do you happen to know why she is so against it as I am sure many will share her thoughts?
I think once people are given a choice, much like renewable energy, electric cars etc many will choose the more environmentally friendly option.
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@chimoaus said in The Future of Protein?:
@mikethesnow said in The Future of Protein?:
Always has been and always will be a human problem not an animal problem.
There are too many of us on the planet.
And there’s too much food waste.
That’s where all these Climate Change discussions should begin and end.
Otherwise we’re just shuffling the deck.
Agree about humans but we aren't going anywhere, we raise over 50 billion chickens each year for consumption and there are over 20 billion farm animals waiting to be slaughtered now. We have to grow crops to feed these animals, they release emissions, take up lots of space etc.
If that protein could be grown with significantly less resources, land and impacts it has to make a difference, that is what I'm getting at.
Coming from a position of no research, is there any publications on resource usage of animal protein vs vegetarian? How much land, does it take, water usage etc to make 100g of protein? How how nutritionally beneficial is this 100g vs that of animal?
Genuinely curious, as the I think the avocado numbers are not published enough.
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Chicken is an efficient and cheap source of protein (meat or eggs). Conversion of dry feed into meat is pretty remarkable.
Take broiler chickens: genetics companies have bred them to grow so fast and frugally that they now need just 2.4lbs of feed to produce a pound of usable meat. (Though the feed is dry, while the meat is 66% water.) That feed is mainly corn and soy, which currently cost just 6 cents/lb and 14 cents/lb respectively. The only other major cost is labor and infrastructure, but factory farmers have gotten those costs down to just 10 cents/lb of bird weight.
Soy is cheap too. Other plant proteins can be surprisingly expensive.
Novel proteins are much pricier. Mung bean protein starts at $2/lb on Alibaba, potato protein starts at $3/lb, fava bean protein at $4/lb, chickpea protein at $5/lb, and lentil protein at $10/lb. Slightly less novel pea protein is cheaper, starting at $1/lb, though the non-GMO and organic varieties preferred by many startups are pricier. And most of these are already large-scale crops, so it may be hard to bring prices down a lot further.
A lot of inputs can be required to make a palatable meat substitute, which results in high prices.
All prices from 2020.
Sources:
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@chimoaus said in The Future of Protein?:
@antipodean It is an interesting debate and I am curious about people's beliefs and opinions on the matter.
Do you happen to know why she is so against it as I am sure many will share her thoughts?
She said it was "weird". Then when pressed asked how you could be know what cut it was modelled on, i.e. how you weren't getting a turdburger made from lips and arseholes, or a rolled roast wasn't a dick, etc.
I think once people are given a choice, much like renewable energy, electric cars etc many will choose the more environmentally friendly option.
She did question how building the infrastructure to make lab meat on an industrial scale could be less environmentally damaging.
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"Lab grown meat" aka, growing animal cells in bioreactors for meat replicas or substitutes will likely never be possible for economic, and practicality reasons. A lot of scams out there in that area. I think it's a genuinely stupid idea and a terrible waste of resources.
There's a (very optimistic to me) analysis in the journal Biotechnology & Bioengineering. Still looking at very high costs, and that is with things going well.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bit.27848
Commentary here on practicalities and economics that is worth reading:
Lab-grown meat was supposed to be inevitable. Here's why it isn't.
Splashy headlines aside, new research suggests the industry is on a billion-dollar crash course with reality.
Single cell protein from engineered yeast is much more interesting to me.
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@mariner4life said in The Future of Protein?:
if they take away my ability to purchase animals, then i will eat people
That's very environmentally responsible, the world's pop is too big.
