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@NTA They have some pretty odd ideas about it too. A friend of mine is an American who married a kiwi and lives in NZ, has done for ages. She goes back and can't believe the sentiment against a free or very subsidised health system, coming from most of her working class or middle class friends and family who stand to gain as much as anyone from such a system
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@canefan said in US Election Thread 2016:
This election has been extraordinarily toxic on all sides. Social media has allowed unprecedented levels of pettiness and the media have been ready and willing to go down there too
The next one will be worse.
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@antipodean said in US Election Thread 2016:
The next one will be worse.
Will Michelle Obama run?
Having been up close to it for the last 8 years, would she even want to?
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@Kirwan said in US Election Thread 2016:
The aftermath of this election is going to be really interesting. Both sides have demonised the other to unprecedented levels, hard to see how they come together after this.
They really need to restrict the length of a campaign.
Yep. I've been in Texas for the last 10 days, and from what I've seen, they are both living in entirely different worlds - with few interactions between people who have different world views. I agree about the length of the campaign, but it's also now basically built into society - my GOP friends In DFW earn good money, live in gated communities, join 'clubs' where every one else basically has the same world view, and have their kids in private schools. They don't know anything - from actual experience - about other people's lives and have no experiences that make them challenge the view that 'if I work hard, I'll be successful'. I tried to get talking policy with them and nearly got in to a fight with a friend who I've known for 15 years - the idea of dialogic discourse is finished.
On the other hand, the people I met in Austin were almost the opposite - all in education - many working at public schools with students who come from bad homes, etc. etc. who were totally against any Trump rhetoric. They have a 100% different view from seeing different people - struggling, everyday. Few of them were ready to talk policy - mostly it was just about identity politics.
I didn't meet many country, white, lower-class Trump supporters - mainly because I didn't get a chance to get outside the cities, I guess. But, the few I met were all about illegal immigrants taking their jobs. I was too afraid to talk policy with them - they are probably armed
Overall, the place is just terrible (I went there for work) and getting worse. I used to love visiting, but now it's getting harder and harder to have a good time. I was also shocked at the number of people begging. My conference was in a relatively shitty part of Austin and there were really poor looking people, everywhere. Lots of people begging - like on most corners and at busy interchanges off the highway. And, don't get me started on Walmart. Holy shit.
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@gt12 said in US Election Thread 2016:
@Kirwan said in US Election Thread 2016:
The aftermath of this election is going to be really interesting. Both sides have demonised the other to unprecedented levels, hard to see how they come together after this.
They really need to restrict the length of a campaign.
Yep. I've been in Texas for the last 10 days, and from what I've seen, they are both living in entirely different worlds - with few interactions between people who have different world views. I agree about the length of the campaign, but it's also now basically built into society - my GOP friends In DFW earn good money, live in gated communities, join 'clubs' where every one else basically has the same world view, and have their kids in private schools. They don't know anything - from actual experience - about other people's lives and have no experiences that make them challenge the view that 'if I work hard, I'll be successful'. I tried to get talking policy with them and nearly got in to a fight with a friend who I've known for 15 years - the idea of dialogic discourse is finished.
On the other hand, the people I met in Austin were almost the opposite - all in education - many working at public schools with students who come from bad homes, etc. etc. who were totally against any Trump rhetoric. They have a 100% different view from seeing different people - struggling, everyday. Few of them were ready to talk policy - mostly it was just about identity politics.
I didn't meet many country, white, lower-class Trump supporters - mainly because I didn't get a chance to get outside the cities, I guess. But, the few I met were all about illegal immigrants taking their jobs. I was too afraid to talk policy with them - they are probably armed
Overall, the place is just terrible (I went there for work) and getting worse. I used to love visiting, but now it's getting harder and harder to have a good time. I was also shocked at the number of people begging. My conference was in a relatively shitty part of Austin and there were really poor looking people, everywhere. Lots of people begging - like on most corners and at busy interchanges off the highway. And, don't get me started on Walmart. Holy shit.
I'm sure you also realise that Texas probably isn't overly representative of the US of A (most of them would be happy to break away). Even across the border in NM I gather the folk there don't take to kindly to the average Texan as they view them as rednecks.
I tend to think you find pockets of 'reasonable', level headed 'Mericans in the larger cities but not only do they feel shouted at by the die hards from either side they don't have a viable avenue for moderate views to be heard. -
@Crucial said in US Election Thread 2016:
@gt12 said in US Election Thread 2016:
@Kirwan said in US Election Thread 2016:
The aftermath of this election is going to be really interesting. Both sides have demonised the other to unprecedented levels, hard to see how they come together after this.
They really need to restrict the length of a campaign.
Yep. I've been in Texas for the last 10 days, and from what I've seen, they are both living in entirely different worlds - with few interactions between people who have different world views. I agree about the length of the campaign, but it's also now basically built into society - my GOP friends In DFW earn good money, live in gated communities, join 'clubs' where every one else basically has the same world view, and have their kids in private schools. They don't know anything - from actual experience - about other people's lives and have no experiences that make them challenge the view that 'if I work hard, I'll be successful'. I tried to get talking policy with them and nearly got in to a fight with a friend who I've known for 15 years - the idea of dialogic discourse is finished.
On the other hand, the people I met in Austin were almost the opposite - all in education - many working at public schools with students who come from bad homes, etc. etc. who were totally against any Trump rhetoric. They have a 100% different view from seeing different people - struggling, everyday. Few of them were ready to talk policy - mostly it was just about identity politics.
I didn't meet many country, white, lower-class Trump supporters - mainly because I didn't get a chance to get outside the cities, I guess. But, the few I met were all about illegal immigrants taking their jobs. I was too afraid to talk policy with them - they are probably armed
Overall, the place is just terrible (I went there for work) and getting worse. I used to love visiting, but now it's getting harder and harder to have a good time. I was also shocked at the number of people begging. My conference was in a relatively shitty part of Austin and there were really poor looking people, everywhere. Lots of people begging - like on most corners and at busy interchanges off the highway. And, don't get me started on Walmart. Holy shit.
I'm sure you also realise that Texas probably isn't overly representative of the US of A (most of them would be happy to break away). Even across the border in NM I gather the folk there don't take to kindly to the average Texan as they view them as rednecks.
I tend to think you find pockets of 'reasonable', level headed 'Mericans in the larger cities but not only do they feel shouted at by the die hards from either side they don't have a viable avenue for moderate views to be heard.Yeah, when I talked to my co-workers (Virginia & California) they suggested that isn't representative of the country, but I'm not so sure - I'm not talking about people walking around wearing cowboy hats (although I know plenty of those too, but didn't see them this time*). I'm talking about the divide between mid-upper class and working-lower class. I'll be in Portland and Seattle next year, so I'll be interested to see how things are different - or similar there. I've never found Texas to be that different to the other Southwest and Southern states in terms of that difference and I've been all over - through from Alabama up Kentucky, Montana, and down to Arizona.
- an interesting side note here - I didn't get to visit him this time, but one of the most money-earning kiwi equestrians you've never heard of is Clint Allen, a cutting horse trainer from NZ, now based out of Weatherford, TX (real cowboy country).
https://ehorsetrainer.com/trainers/cutting-horse-trainer-clint-allen
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@gt12 - Yeah, that's pretty much my experience too. I was in Chicago a couple of months ago and it dawned on me that when politics enters the conversation people just start talking in slogans. Otherwise very clever people that I've known for years devolve into idiots who see things in the most black and white terms. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter, they are unbelievably closed off to real debate.
I know very nice people who spend hours every week raising money for United Way and various charities but never actually meet a person who earns less than $100k a year unless they are being served by them. But that doesn't stop them holding strong opinions on what poor people's problems are and how they can improve their lives. Usually with God's help.
I also know others who fall in step with the social justice agenda without thinking, as if all the right buzzwords will actually change anything.
It's depressing and mystifying in equal measures.
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@Catogrande said in US Election Thread 2016:
@booboo it will be interesting to see how this pans out and as much as I dislike the Trumpster, I have to say that, so far, the reporting, if you can call it that, is pretty much a load of empty what ifs.
The Manafort connection is 100x more concrete than anything tossed at Hillary yet...
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@Catogrande said in US Election Thread 2016:
@booboo it will be interesting to see how this pans out and as much as I dislike the Trumpster, I have to say that, so far, the reporting, if you can call it that, is pretty much a load of empty what ifs.
Yeah Mother Jones looks s reliable source
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@gollum said in US Election Thread 2016:
@Catogrande said in US Election Thread 2016:
@booboo it will be interesting to see how this pans out and as much as I dislike the Trumpster, I have to say that, so far, the reporting, if you can call it that, is pretty much a load of empty what ifs.
The Manafort connection is 100x more concrete than anything tossed at Hillary yet...
Seriously?
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I found a picture of @gollum on the internet.
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@gollum said in US Election Thread 2016:
@Catogrande said in US Election Thread 2016:
@booboo it will be interesting to see how this pans out and as much as I dislike the Trumpster, I have to say that, so far, the reporting, if you can call it that, is pretty much a load of empty what ifs.
The Manafort connection is 100x more concrete than anything tossed at Hillary yet...
Complete rubbish.
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The success that this guy is having is unprecedented. It highlights again the level of disillusionment with politics in the US at the moment
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11740420
US Politics