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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
Big day here ... final vote on May's deal, with legal changes to avoid the permanent backstop.
Well, at least that was the story at 11:29.
At 11:30, the Attorney General states the legal risk remains unchanged. Thats the end of that.
Now we really are on a precipice!!
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
Big day here ... final vote on May's deal, with legal changes to avoid the permanent backstop.
Well, at least that was the story at 11:29.
At 11:30, the Attorney General states the legal risk remains unchanged. Thats the end of that.
Now we really are on a precipice!!
What's the latest now? I could look but I do prefer some ferners commentary on this.
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@Hooroo She got smashed again ... 149 majority now, which is an improvement, but it's still so far away from getting through.
She's just spoke and said the original plan sticks. Tomorrow they vote on no-deal (Which should be a resounding no), and then extension to article 50. Which I expect will be a yes.
And then, the EU will say why, you've got a deal now f off and deal with it ...
At which point ... it's a real worry. A real worry.
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Hooroo She got smashed again ... 149 majority now, which is an improvement, but it's still so far away from getting through.
She's just spoke and said the original plan sticks. Tomorrow they vote on no-deal (Which should be a resounding no), and then extension to article 50. Which I expect will be a yes.
And then, the EU will say why, you've got a deal now f off and deal with it ...
At which point ... it's a real worry. A real worry.
Wow!
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@MajorRage far out, is this just an absolute commitment to no deal over a bad deal? Where some might argue that it's an average deal rather than a bad deal?
@Hooroo beat me to it!!
Surely this has gone beyond any personal enmity against May? Do they just want to watch the world burn??
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@Paekakboyz I really think that the major stumbling block is that there is a group of people (Parliament) that are in charge of delivering the people's will on Brexit but the majority of them don't want it.
What the outcome will be is still open to almost any scenario but what it is without doubt is a complete shambles.
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@Paekakboyz there are so many points of view.
The logistics of no deal in reality rule it out. It means hard border in Ireland (which fuck all people seem to acknowledge and questions if I’m right here) which means implosion. Not to mention required changes to all borders / entry for all people, products, services and trade.
BUT ... it’s also probably the best way to get things done. Sink or swim.
The extension is just a flop as well. There is a deadlock which won’t move. An extension won’t change that. Whose to say the EU will do anything anyway?
So ... in reality I don’t know. But May us fucked. Totally and utterly. But she doesn’t see it.
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@MajorRage @Catogrande cheers guys. While May has fucked things is there any sense that anyone could have gotten an exit deal over the line? i.e. is this the ultimate poison chalice?
Man so much of politics (since day dot I guess) is actively fucking with the other side to the detriment of all, especially joe public. I guess one of the shameful things about this debacle is that those in the political trenches are likely to avoid having their names go down in history as fucking up brexit? where that will sit with May and perhaps the other party leaders? or do you think the stain will go wider?
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@Paekakboyz said in Brexit:
@MajorRage @Catogrande cheers guys. While May has fucked things is there any sense that anyone could have gotten an exit deal over the line? i.e. is this the ultimate poison chalice?
Man so much of politics (since day dot I guess) is actively fucking with the other side to the detriment of all, especially joe public. I guess one of the shameful things about this debacle is that those in the political trenches are likely to avoid having their names go down in history as fucking up brexit? where that will sit with May and perhaps the other party leaders? or do you think the stain will go wider?
To answer your questions. Firstly I don't think May has fucked this herself although she certainly could have done some things better, like not calling a General Election when she had a working majority or at least bloody well campaign during the election. The result greatly hindered her and made her position very weak. Is she toast? Most likely I'd say, certainly in the longer run. As to a more short term view maybe not. If there was someone else willing to take on this shitshow then perhaps she'd be ousted but at the moment that doesn't seem to be on the cards.
What will posterity say about it all? IMO May will carry the can for a lot of it but also Cameron who really dumped us in the shit and then buggered off. All the others that have said a lot but done very little will likely get away with hardly a stain.
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Genuine question after watching
and will admit right off the bat I am incredibly ignorant.In terms of the Irish border why does this issue have to be resolved prior to Brexit? More importantly why is it implicitly the British's responsibility to resolve it?
Why can't they just maintain the policy of absolutely no wall, allow Brexit to pass and attempt to police incoming goods and immigration as best they can from within. Yes, absolutely it's going to be a massive backdoor; but I'd rather be on the side of the backdoor with one person going for the exit than 27 people scrambling to the exit. Let the status quo change a bit and let's see what happens?
I see absolutely no reason why NI should remain in part in the customs union anymore than Ireland should be forced to exit (or at least introduce additional controls).
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
She's just spoke and said the original plan sticks.
So stubborn and stupid?
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In terms of the Irish border why does this issue have to be resolved prior to Brexit? More importantly why is it implicitly the British's responsibility to resolve it?
It's not. That's for the EU to worry about - they're the ones who will have to develop a solution for Ireland within their single market.
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@antipodean said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
She's just spoke and said the original plan sticks.
So stubborn and stupid?
Certainly stubborn - not stupid tho.
Just watched the papers round up. They are unanimous in their scathing of May,
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@antipodean said in Brexit:
In terms of the Irish border why does this issue have to be resolved prior to Brexit? More importantly why is it implicitly the British's responsibility to resolve it?
It's not. That's for the EU to worry about - they're the ones who will have to develop a solution for Ireland within their single market.
Well yes ... but in the meantime it’s London who will face the consequences, which has in fact already started.
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@Paekakboyz said in Brexit:
@MajorRage @Catogrande cheers guys. While May has fucked things is there any sense that anyone could have gotten an exit deal over the line? i.e. is this the ultimate poison chalice?
Man so much of politics (since day dot I guess) is actively fucking with the other side to the detriment of all, especially joe public. I guess one of the shameful things about this debacle is that those in the political trenches are likely to avoid having their names go down in history as fucking up brexit? where that will sit with May and perhaps the other party leaders? or do you think the stain will go wider?
The real problem is 52 % votes to leave but 85% of parliament voted to remain.
May has made some colossal fuck ups, for which she must fall on her sword. Not to say anybody else would have done better, tho. Impossible situation.
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Hooroo She got smashed again ... 149 majority now, which is an improvement, but it's still so far away from getting through.
She's just spoke and said the original plan sticks. Tomorrow they vote on no-deal (Which should be a resounding no), and then extension to article 50. Which I expect will be a yes.
And then, the EU will say why, you've got a deal now f off and deal with it ...
At which point ... it's a real worry. A real worry.
Wow!
Best prediction I’ve heard tonight. EU will agree extension, on condition of re vote.
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@MajorRage whoa, I had not caught that. So if that is a bunch of elected officials slowing down, or actively messing up, the 'will of the people' as they personally disagree.... far out. I guess that could be the case for all sorts of decisions/bills/legislation... but it kind of makes my head spin. I presume some of those 85% might have had romantic ideals about fighting a rear guard action until brexit was overturned or it went to vote again? so they'd look like they really knew what people wanted after all??
Man, we are truly living in interesting times!!
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Hooroo She got smashed again ... 149 majority now, which is an improvement, but it's still so far away from getting through.
She's just spoke and said the original plan sticks. Tomorrow they vote on no-deal (Which should be a resounding no), and then extension to article 50. Which I expect will be a yes.
And then, the EU will say why, you've got a deal now f off and deal with it ...
At which point ... it's a real worry. A real worry.
Wow!
Best prediction I’ve heard tonight. EU will agree extension, on condition of re vote.
That would lead to massive civil unrest.
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@antipodean said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
She's just spoke and said the original plan sticks.
So stubborn and stupid?
Certainly stubborn - not stupid tho.
Just watched the papers round up. They are unanimous in their scathing of May,
Well if the papers are scathing maybe she didnt do so bad afterall.
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heard on the radio one guy saying if they went for another referendum that ended up with similar results the other way, would they need to have another; best 2 out of 3?
Given May was against it in the first place, must be hugely difficult selling the Brexit deal.
Surely the better course would have been to have a multi party presence in the negotiations in the first instance, rather than one party deal, which is always gonna cause issues with others, sure negotiations may have taken longer, but if they nutted a deal then there wouldnt need to be any of this other no deal issues.
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The way I see it, the remainers should have handed over the keys to the leavers and told them to put up or shut up. How can you have a PM in charge of this process who would reverse the result of the vote in an instance if she had the chance?
Brexit