-
@barbarian said in US Politics:
But that's it. If we're listing the causes of this (many and varied), you have to start with the simmering racial divide that is as old as the country itself, and how that manifests more recently in the area of law enforcement.
I'd suggest you need to start with income disparity. The fact that inner-city African Americans are more likely to not be college educated, be from single parent households, be in (relative) poverty, be located in high crime areas and it's small wonder that police, who spend every minute of their working day surrounded by criminals or the victims of crime are on edge.
Particularly when such interactions are marked by a high propensity for violence amongst suspected criminals.
Given the marked decline in the employment market, it's not surprising to find white youths all too eager to engage in mindless violence too.
The media seems to be strangely quiet that the other two officers heavily involved in the events surrounding Floyd's death were Asian and Hispanic.
-
The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Second thing is they have to crush Antifa and the violent protestors.
Leave the peaceful ones (for Christ sake stop pepper spraying woman and children).
It’s a shit show however you look at it. Hard to see a way back.
-
@antipodean said in US Politics:
The media seems to be strangely quiet that the other two officers heavily involved in the events surrounding Floyd's death were Asian and Hispanic.
I don't disagree with your post, but just on this I have heard that fact a few times and I wouldn't consider myself to be following the incident forensically.
-
Some FYI.
US police officers killed by gunfire while on duty.
2017 45
2018 52
2019 48
2020 20There is also a category called ( gunfire- inadvertent). So the above are murders.
Nearly every scenario was a routine piece of police work. Domestic violence call out and traffic stops featuring the most.
As an American police officer, 1 of your occupation peers gets shot dead every week of the working year. Anyone else that can lay claim to a similar "occupational hazard"?
-
@Siam said in US Politics:
Some FYI.
US police officers killed by gunfire while on duty.
2017 45
2018 52
2019 48
2020 20There is also a category called ( gunfire- inadvertent). So the above are murders.
Nearly every scenario was a routine piece of police work. Domestic violence call out and traffic stops featuring the most.
As an American police officer, 1 of your occupation peers gets shot dead every week of the working year. Anyone else that can lay claim to a similar "occupational hazard"?
Something I've always wondered is how disproportionate the statistics are with respect to crimes committed.
For example, if black men are 3 x more likely to get searched, do they commit 3 x more crime? I'll be honest and say I've never really looked into it, but I wonder how many actual facts are behind the racism.
-
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Second thing is they have to crush Antifa and the violent protestors.
Leave the peaceful ones (for Christ sake stop pepper spraying woman and children).
It’s a shit show however you look at it. Hard to see a way back.
This. It all feeds into the disproportionate manner in which the police react to (mostly) petty crime (or at least the perception). Do you really need to kneel on a guy's neck just because you (wrongly) think he's using counterfeit money?
-
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Yesterday in London, there was as pretty large mob which went outside 10 Downing Street - they yelled out fuck the police as one. Anitfa sign was front and central.
Like Covid, it's spreading.
I certainly side with those upset about Floyd and what caused it. I don't side with rioters, looters and those who like to cause anarchy. I tend to find that the real crossover between the two groups is little.
Saw some photo's which suggested UK protestors were largely white? Social distancing was not in evidence.
-
@junior said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Second thing is they have to crush Antifa and the violent protestors.
Leave the peaceful ones (for Christ sake stop pepper spraying woman and children).
It’s a shit show however you look at it. Hard to see a way back.
This. It all feeds into the disproportionate manner in which the police react to (mostly) petty crime (or at least the perception). Do you really need to kneel on a guy's neck just because you (wrongly) think he's using counterfeit money?
If you have had colleagues shot and killed on random traffic stops I’d imagine every interaction could be tense. I also thing they train this and it’s clearly dangerous.
So two factors at play, a poor technique and potentially a wearing down of mental health after prolonged exposure to dangerous situations.
-
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
For example, if black men are 3 x more likely to get searched, do they commit 3 x more crime? I'll be honest and say I've never really looked into it, but I wonder how many actual facts are behind the racism.
A good place to start.. Busts a few myths.
-
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
@junior said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Second thing is they have to crush Antifa and the violent protestors.
Leave the peaceful ones (for Christ sake stop pepper spraying woman and children).
It’s a shit show however you look at it. Hard to see a way back.
This. It all feeds into the disproportionate manner in which the police react to (mostly) petty crime (or at least the perception). Do you really need to kneel on a guy's neck just because you (wrongly) think he's using counterfeit money?
If you have had colleagues shot and killed on random traffic stops I’d imagine every interaction could be tense. I also thing they train this and it’s clearly dangerous.
So two factors at play, a poor technique and potentially a wearing down of mental health after prolonged exposure to dangerous situations.
This officer had already been involved in three police shootings, one fatal. That is hardly atypical for a US officer with a couple of decades service.
There is also always going to be the issue where the police force is always going to be one of those self selecting professions where people at the absolute end of the bell curve end up.
-
@rotated said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
@junior said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Second thing is they have to crush Antifa and the violent protestors.
Leave the peaceful ones (for Christ sake stop pepper spraying woman and children).
It’s a shit show however you look at it. Hard to see a way back.
This. It all feeds into the disproportionate manner in which the police react to (mostly) petty crime (or at least the perception). Do you really need to kneel on a guy's neck just because you (wrongly) think he's using counterfeit money?
If you have had colleagues shot and killed on random traffic stops I’d imagine every interaction could be tense. I also thing they train this and it’s clearly dangerous.
So two factors at play, a poor technique and potentially a wearing down of mental health after prolonged exposure to dangerous situations.
This officer had already been involved in three police shootings, one fatal. That is hardly atypical for a US officer with a couple of decades service.
There is also always going to be the issue where the police force is always going to be one of those self selecting professions where people at the absolute end of the bell curve end up.
Probably angry because he didn't make it into the marines. This way he still gets to wear military style gear and carry a gun...
The family had an independent autopsy done which is at odds with the official one. Not a good look and will only serve to strengthen distrust in the authorities.
Lots of conflicting reports here, the police claim that the original 911 caller described the victim as being intoxicated and not in control, which may have heightened the alert level of the arresting officers. Whether that was correct or not I suppose they will test him for toxicology.
-
@canefan said in US Politics:
The family had an independent autopsy done which is at odds with the official one.
I'm astonished. What are the odds?
-
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
The family had an independent autopsy done which is at odds with the official one.
I'm astonished. What are the odds?
Yes, quelle surprise
-
This kind of sums up some of the problem. James Woods (the actor) has gone off the deep end a bit in recent years, but has big support from the right-wing MAGA crowd on Twitter. This was what he put up today:
What sort of twisted mindset do you have to have to look at these protests and say 'Obama and Hillary are to blame for this'!?!?
It's the response of someone who isn't well mentally.
-
@Tim said in US Politics:
An effective polemic against american liberalism:
The exporting of industrial capability to China and other cheap labour countries has bitten most of the developed nations in the butt during covid19. And the US complain about loss of intellectual property, but companies are making it easy to do via outsourcing. Unless there is a major philosophical shift and companies accept less profit to manufacture domestically I don't see things changing
-
@barbarian said in US Politics:
This kind of sums up some of the problem. James Woods (the actor) has gone off the deep end a bit in recent years, but has big support from the right-wing MAGA crowd on Twitter. This was what he put up today:
What sort of twisted mindset do you have to have to look at these protests and say 'Obama and Hillary are to blame for this'!?!?
It's the response of someone who isn't well mentally.
I'm sure Trump will retweet and like it....
-
Interesting to see whether sweeping social reform can be managed in the USA. Particularly for the health and education systems, where a lot of the inequality was highlighted long before vivid came along to destroy a very fragile employment system.
In a lot of ways, the wealth of the USA still relies on a slave underclass. But, as a result, they've got the wealth to start fixing it. They just need to prioritise, and in this, reform of the political class needs to happen.
This concept of voting in DAs and law enforcement officials is a tricky business in gaining impartiality and a culture of fairness (perceived or otherwise).
@barbarian James Woods is fucking cooked. Why isn't anyone in the right wing side saying "Hey just shut up and worry about acting"?
US Politics